The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

[this_n00b_rocks]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

n00b, thanks for your help, but Q wants the quote where the Lucifer is cast out of Heaven, which I will not pretend I can provide, as I have no idea where my Bible is.

Oh. I'll find it sometime today.

[liljj_701]

The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

The devil basicly came from God so i do think that hell is a unhappy place to be. i don't know no one will no for sure what it is. Or who the devil is. Only the end will tell us right? iono that is also a deff. question it leads me to do a ton of thinking.

[shrimpy]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

The devil basicly came from God so i do think that hell is a unhappy place to be. i don't know no one will no for sure what it is. Or who the devil is. Only the end will tell us right? iono that is also a deff. question it leads me to do a ton of thinking.

You need to correct your spelling, liljj. Read the rules before posting.

Hell is basically a place with eternal suffering. I believe that hell is where your heart is tortured with guilt forever and forever. Guilt and regret is what's causing your pain. Because hell is FOREVER, people will think twice about their actions.
theshrimp

[TD_samtorx]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

In my belief.. the devil is the essence of evil, being evil itself. God is everything resembling good and everthing outside his realm is evil and suffering.
a portrayal of this would be:

heaven: home of God and the best place to be. no suffering, no evil

earth: devil is the ruler here but god has the power to keep good but not to save all man (from hell). he has a grip on everyone and when he decides to let one person go, then he will be killed by the devil(not directly of course). reason why god cant make it so that no one will be evil or die is because its against the law of the world.

hell: devil is absolute ruler here. eternal suffering.

based on Christiany but i didnt get into saving souls and Jesus because its not as centered on the subject

[GuidoHunter]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

The devil, in my opinion, is the biggest cop out of Christianity. God creates humans in his perfect image, but then, DEVIL COMES SUDDENLY, we're not perfect anymore. Makes sense right, since god is all powerful and can do anything, why doesn't he just slay the devil and say, hey humans, you're perfect again!

We were imperfect because of our own choices, whether or not they were influenced by Satan.

And who says God wants us to be mindless drones? If he wanted that he would have never given us free will (recall that the scope of this thread rests inside Christianity, which professes free will, so no thread hijacking).

This thread is ridiculously hilarious and I find anyone who has taken it seriously absurd.

The I'm-right-and-anyone-who-disagrees-is-stupid attitude isn't welcome here. Watch your step.

yes a loving and forgiving god would send people to be tortured for all eternity based on petty human decisions and ideals which are ingrained into their minds

Uh...yeah. Is it so hard to believe that even God has a threshold? I don't think you understand how difficult it actually is to be sent to hell. You seriously have to reject God as much as possible and/or do some really horrible things.

Also, I wouldn't consider defying, rejecting, scorning, and dismissing the being who gave you your very existence "petty".

My concept of God is that of a very forgiving being, but it's far more difficult for me to think that he'll send anyone and everyone, regardless of thought or action, to heaven just because he's considered "forgiving". I highly doubt he'll be tied down by some people's characterizations of him. He shows several times that he gets angry and punishes those who act against him.

If there is evil in the world, that means God is not all-loving or that there is another entity out there that has the powers of a deity. This implies that there is not just one God.

It also assumes that "loving" means he'll never send anyone to hell. God says he loves everyone, and he does, but that doesn't mean he won't punish people.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[ddr_f4n]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Based on what my religion teacher says, the devil wants us to think that if we do bad and become sinner, we will be his most humble servant. BUT if you guys have forgotten, the devil hates God AND his creations. That is why he would punish us in hell. If we do not follow the path to God, God will accept the devil to take you to do whatever he wants you to do simply because he hates you, because you are God's creation.

Reference: My Religion Teacher

[Ryusei_]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

While browsing around a while ago, I found an intersting story of how the devil is not even really an original creation of Christianity. (Well...The image of him, anyways)

As we all know, compared to most other well known religions, Christianity is like the newborn of the bunch. Many of Christianity's holidays and beliefs are actually borrowed from other religions. The same hold true for both the image and role of the devil.

In a lot of celtic religions, (I suppose this would be modern day Wicca or Paganism) they worship, for the most part, a god and a goddess. The goddess, essentially, is Mother Earth. The god, however, was their god of the hunt. They also knew him as "The Horned God" due to the fact that he did have antlers...Or what would be on the modern devil..."horns"

Now again, most of these religions practiced and studied magick, or witchcraft. Given most of the history of Christianity, they've basically tried to kill or wipe out anything that their god couldn't explain, or simply threatened their own religion. The same held true for these people, the worshipers of "The Horned God" and their practiced. (Salem witch trials are a good example) ...Christianity believed that this, because of their supposed evil natures and the ability to control things such as nature, or even people, had to come from some great sorce of evil. Basically, their anti-god, Satan.

So, upon learning what they did worship, and because of the image they did have for their god, Christianity thought that this was their Satan and in a sense, adopted the image. This is also why Wicca or any form of it, is viewed by most people to be satanic. Also the same reason that most Christians believe that the pentagram (my avatar) is a symbol of satanism as well.

*note* If there are any spelling or grammar errors in any of this, I do apologize. I will edit them as I see them but I wrote this just after waking up from a nap. Cut me a little slack

[TD_samtorx]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

In response to Ryusei:
Before I start this is mostly in terms of Christianity so if i say something like ghosts aren't real it doesn't mean that im saying they don't exist, im just explaining in terms of religion and beliefs.

It is wrong to say that Christians in general have tried to wipe out things that they could not understand. Crusades, Salem, witch burning and such were acts of Christians in a high position but definetly not the whole. Whether someone is religious or not, every person (excluding some mentally impaired) knows that they are not without evil. I believe that the evil caused by Christianity is a misinterpretation of the scripture. Correct me if im wrong but no where in the New Testament in the bible does it say to kill even those who are on the extreme of evil. The part where it gets confusing though is the reason why Christianity has branches, Catholics, Protestants, Mormon, etc. is because of different interpretation. The truth is that no one can really understand it in whole.

As for the interpretation of the devil, it can be many things, even things that may not exist (Ex. Bigfoot if it is worshipped). He's described as a wolf in sheep's clothing. He runs on trickery. The devil is not limited to wicca, deitys, shaman gods, etc. He is everything opposing good.

About Christianity origins: It really the creation of the Earth and Eden where one God and the Trinity (same as today and tomorow) is worshipped by a group of people. Idolism, devil worship comes after. Eventually after Jesus comes so on and so forth, Christianity is created.

All of this or none of this may be true. Depends on your belief. This should be correct according to my beliefs unless I screwed up somewhere XD. Anyway no offense to anyone and no offense taken.

[Laharl]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

Win, thread over, etc.

This thread is ridiculously hilarious and I find anyone who has taken it seriously absurd.

(quote from StretchyPanda)

LOL

yes a loving and forgiving god would send people to be tortured for all eternity based on petty human decisions and ideals which are ingrained into their minds

good logic, makes sense

Why is it you are allowed to inflict your opinions as fact and call people out in other threads for doing what you view as them doing just that?

You're very hard to take seriously, Rai.


Edit:

I highly recommend people go read Paradise Lost if they find this thread at all interesting. It just presents John Milton's views about Satan, Paradise, and the reasons for the "Fall of Man", but they are very intriguing and correlate very directly into this thread.

[Mystik3345]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

The Devil doesn't punish people, God does by sending them to Hell. Hell was created by God to punish Lucifer, and he is condemned to Hell for a really long ass time. Now the Devil tries to take over peoples souls, etc etc (assuming it is real) as a way of getting back at God, or the war between good and evil as it is commonly referred. God thought Lucifer a good person until an hour before his exile

[Tps222]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

I'm pretty sure the Devil is a fallen angel who turned on God and formed Hell. At least, thats what I remember hearing. I just never understood why God would send someone down to his enemy, instead of just forming one of his own punishments for you.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

YET AGAIN...

God doesn't send you TO Satan. He sends you AWAY from himself, which just happens to be where Satan is.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Tps222]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

So how is what I said false then?

[GuidoHunter]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

I just never understood why God would send someone down to his enemy, instead of just forming one of his own punishments for you.

I said God doesn't send you to Satan. In fact, he probably doesn't care that Satan's in hell. His punishment (his OWN punishment, created by him and exacted on Satan as well as any other person) is to send you away from himself.

As such, the quoted sentence is completely false, or at least based on false premises.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: The Devil (Evil or misunderstood?)

The devil, in my opinion, is the biggest cop out of Christianity. God creates humans in his perfect image, but then, DEVIL COMES SUDDENLY, we're not perfect anymore. Makes sense right, since god is all powerful and can do anything, why doesn't he just slay the devil and say, hey humans, you're perfect again!

Because there is no god, and there is no devil, only humanity.

Ah yes one of the biggest questions that has the easiest answer. Evil (or the Devil) came about because someone made a choice to do wrong. By destroying anyone that did what was wrong, that would only prove that God is more powerful. But God wants people to serve him freely and with love. (If God wanted all to serve just him and not be able to do otherwise, he would have created us that way. Mindless bodies.)

When Satan said to Eve that the fruit from the tree was good, he was implying that God was holding something back that would benefit humans. This brought into question, not whether or not God has the power to rule over humans, but the RIGHT to rule over humans. Could humans rule themselves without the help of God? Could they do things their own way and still be as successful without the help of God? So to answer these questions, God has to let time go on to prove these points. Obviously things are ok in places, but things aren't great either. In fact they could be a lot better but that's a different subject.

So in essence, the Devil's "job" is to prove that humans will only serve God when it's convienent for them or Satan tries to prove that humans do not need God's help in matters in order to govern themselves.

That's essentially what I think why we see these evil vs good things around now because we are still apart of that testing period deciding if humans can rule themselves.

But that kind of got off subject but it is helpful in the thread's discussion of where the Devil comes from and what his motives are IMO.

(Side Point: Devil being thrown out of Heaven is Rev 12:9.)