Suicide- Ethical?

[Mystik3345]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

If someone is in obvious agonizing pain and wishes to just get it over with, I think it is somewhat ok, but against my own religious belief being catholic. Having someone else kill you for you however, that is a whole other story. Sure, it's fine. I think that if I am in some horrible pain and there is no hope for my survival, just a cruel painful death, I should be allowed to die quickly.

If I were in a coma on life support? If I was completely braindead, that only thing keeping me alive was an iron lung? Being fed **** through a tube? Please, pull the plug. Spare my soul the embarassment and allow me to go to the afterlife, whatever awaits me there.

[Bahamut-X]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

How is life termination different from killing soldiers overseas or abortion?

This really caught my attention.

Suicide, along with killing other people and abortion DO all fall into the category of life termination, however, the difference is in each person's will. Take for example a soldier in battle. Chances are that person does NOT want to die. Now, a person who is committing suicide is completely different: they WANT to die, very much. For this reason the 2 can not be compared effectively on the subject of ethics.

My point is, if a person truly wants to kill themselves, they have the right to, and it's pretty ridiculous to say that someone other than yourself should have control over what you do with your own life.

[Anti_Formics]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

Suicide is not ethical at all. It is the same as killing any person. Except in the case of suicide it is yourself. The only reason I would ever even consider suicide is if, I am going through much pain and in the end, I will die anyway. Otherwise I would not think of killing someone. Even if that person is myself. War,in some cases,is ethical. In Canada and the US, we fought in Afghanistan for, I think,pretty much two reasons;Fairness and Intergrity. War cannot be avoided unless a cease-fire is issued. In some cases,however, war is not right at all. Actually,war,in all cases,is stupid. No one wants to die. Oh yes,there is one other reason I would suicide. If a loved one of mine passed away, not like Mother,Father,but wife, and I was old. Then I would ask them to pull the plug.

[Snapps]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

wtf anticrombie posted

[Iam_a_Maid]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

wtf anticrombie posted

Kids* posting in CT. That's the result Snapps.

[The_Q]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

Suicide is not ethical at all. It is the same as killing any person. Except in the case of suicide it is yourself. The only reason I would ever even consider suicide is if, I am going through much pain and in the end, I will die anyway. Otherwise I would not think of killing someone. Even if that person is myself. War,in some cases,is ethical. In Canada and the US, we fought in Afghanistan for, I think,pretty much two reasons;Fairness and Intergrity. War cannot be avoided unless a cease-fire is issued. In some cases,however, war is not right at all. Actually,war,in all cases,is stupid. No one wants to die. Oh yes,there is one other reason I would suicide. If a loved one of mine passed away, not like Mother,Father,but wife, and I was old. Then I would ask them to pull the plug.

No, suicide is NOT just like killing another person. If you are killing another person, you are deciding for them whether they get to live or not, a choice they have on their own (because they have the right to their own life). If you kill yourself, you're killing someone who has decided, hopefully, that it would be better off to be dead and chose that path. There is no violation of any right here.

Suicide, along with killing other people and abortion DO all fall into the category of life termination, however, the difference is in each person's will. Take for example a soldier in battle. Chances are that person does NOT want to die. Now, a person who is committing suicide is completely different: they WANT to die, very much. For this reason the 2 can not be compared effectively on the subject of ethics

I disagree with you on the war bit. I think that if there is a soldier who is in combat, they went into that job knowing the risks involved. They may not necessarily want to die but they're ok with it if it happens. In other words, the benefit of serving is greater than the cost of their lives. However, I agree with you on the suicide bit full on.

Q

[Coolgamer]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

Anticrombie0909, you've managed to make me smile today. Lately, that's been a rarity. I take back any feelings of ill will between us. (I've REALLY been under a lot of stress in the real world, as you might gather from my web page.)

I like where this is going, since it raises interesting points when you think about it. In a way, it's like the argument over eating meat or being a vegan. Is it immoral to take an animals life? (Work with me here, I said "like").

Also, there are many Middle-Eastern religions that account for suicide.

Japan, of course, has seppuku, for those who wish to die with honor.

Many others allow for self-starvation as a suicide method, the reasoning being if you have enough will power to die that way, then it must be important to you.

These all apply to non-medical situations, by the way.

Also, if someone really needs help and fails a suicide attempt, is it really a good idea to punish them with jail-time? I myself think that would make the depression worse. Prisons aren't exactly the safest places, and they'd probably find another way to try while confined.

... where was I? Oh yes, trying to sum up this latest string of musings. It all boils down to if you believe you know what's morally "right" and "wrong", and how you know it to be so, be it personal belief, religion, or whatnot. Then, ask why you can take your beliefs and apply them to others lifes and habits.

Morals are funny. There's no compass, more like a Magic 8-Ball that can end up any which way depending how the person goes. Each person goes down a different path, and we all end up with different sets. (That had to be the worst metaphor ever.)

[El_Martini_Kissx33]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

Suicide is most definetly not ethical. There are two types of reasonings when it comes to ethics, there's rule based ethical reasoning and consequence based ethical reasoning.

Rule based ethical reasoning says that you should not do something if it's against a set of rules, laws, etc.

Consequence based ethical reasoning says that you should not do something because of the outcome or reaction to what you do.

Consequently either way, suicide is not ethical NOR reasonable, suicide is morally wrong, a sin, assisted suicides are illegal, therefore suicide is disobeying three different sets of laws, or rules. Also the outcome of a suicide is obviously negative for the entire family and friends that have to deal with the loss and if the person who commited suicide was not 100 percent positive about it, then it is also a negative outcome for them.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

I don't necessarily agree with the act itself but as far as I'm concerned it's the person's right to choose.

[T0rajir0u]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

Rule based ethical reasoning says that you should not do something if it's against a set of rules, laws, etc.

Retarded. Somebody has to decide the rules and they should decide those rules in accordance with:

Consequence based ethical reasoning says that you should not do something because of the outcome or reaction to what you do.

Consequently either way, suicide is not ethical NOR reasonable, suicide is morally wrong, a sin, assisted suicides are illegal, therefore suicide is disobeying three different sets of laws, or rules. Also the outcome of a suicide is obviously negative for the entire family and friends that have to deal with the loss and if the person who commited suicide was not 100 percent positive about it, then it is also a negative outcome for them.

This is too extreme. This kind of logic can be applied to a million different things that fall under the category of "stupid" rather than "immoral." "Immoral" is a much stronger word, and that label needs to be used with more care than it's being used here.

There's also a hint of utilitarianism here, which I personally disagree with because it restricts moral reasoning to one particular scope.

This is the way morality works for a social creature such as a human:

What is most moral is what best preserves the survival of one's social group.

How you choose to define your social group - whether as your nation, your race, or all of humanity; whatever - is up to you. This is responsible for most of the world conflict that has ever occurred ever.

In this sense, consider the very restricted case of old or sick people requesting euthanasia so as to end their lives peacefully and quietly. Since they're about to die anyway, the family does not necessarily suffer more than they would have if the death was natural; they also get the consolation of knowing that the death was painless. Since old or sick people tend not to reproduce, especially if the sickness is terminal, the well-being of the human race is not affected, and in fact, the money saved on superfluous care is actually an economic benefit.

There are a few other cases where suicide is justifiable from several perspectives. They require more attention.

[flamingspinach]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

I like how you're both arguing over who is patronizing when neither of you can spell euthanasia

patronized

ps if you think everyone has a basic right to life then everyone should also have a basic right to death, obviously :/

-fs

[Coolgamer]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

Suicide is most definetly not ethical. There are two types of reasonings when it comes to ethics, there's rule based ethical reasoning and consequence based ethical reasoning.

Rule based ethical reasoning says that you should not do something if it's against a set of rules, laws, etc.

Consequence based ethical reasoning says that you should not do something because of the outcome or reaction to what you do.

Consequently either way, suicide is not ethical NOR reasonable, suicide is morally wrong, a sin, assisted suicides are illegal, therefore suicide is disobeying three different sets of laws, or rules. Also the outcome of a suicide is obviously negative for the entire family and friends that have to deal with the loss and if the person who commited suicide was not 100 percent positive about it, then it is also a negative outcome for them.

Rules? I know of no rules. Society might have lead you to feel that some things are right and some are wrong, like stealing, but rules are made based on past actions. And, as always, the rules never stop changing. As for it being a sin, that's unproveable unless you have a signed Polaroid of God lying about somewhere. For the record, i'm not relating this next subject to suicide, but your argument (immoral, sin, unethical, and violating the law) sounds exactly like the one that the supporters of racial segregation and current anti-homosexual lobby love to use for their "arguments".

As for the person not being ready, I said several times, we are talking after years of therapy and medication have failed, not a spur-of-the-moment bout of depression.

[The_Q]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

Rules? I know of no rules. Society might have lead you to feel that some things are right and some are wrong, like stealing, but rules are made based on past actions.

It's against the law to commit suicide, actually. It's against the rules.

And, as we all know, rules are infallable.

Q

[flamingspinach]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

which totally explains how you can break the rules of spelling and not get struck by lightning 8)

[Coolgamer]

Re: Suicide- Ethical?

It's against the law to commit suicide, actually. It's against the rules.

And, as we all know, rules are infallable.

Q

I meant that rules are a mindset of society, and are not, shall we say, "set in stone". (Well, according to some religions, ten actually are, but that's beside the point at hand.)

And many rules have been wrong. No blacks allowed in this school. No women are allowed to vote. Slavery is totally fine.