Zero tolerance

[flamingspinach]

Re: Zero tolerance

All right then, my example no longer applies - but the point of my post is certainly still valid. People only suggest harsher punishments by the strength of their unshakeable faith that if they follow their conscience they will never fall under the hooves, so to speak, of such punishments. However, laws are fickle, and this becomes a slippery slope. The harsher the punishment you exact upon others, the greater the risk you are putting yourself in as well - fortunes change and we are all human.

You're still not addressing my first paragraph.

-fs

[Tps222]

Re: Zero tolerance

There is no need for any form of rehab for criminals. There are enough people to be interchanged into their slot into society, or what they could have been. No point in wasting funds.

I don't see the point you are making Spinach. Yes, the rules apply for everyone. How would that make the system any worse? Instead of looking at it from a "How would it affect myself and my life" look at it as "How would it affect the state of the nation". This mindset allows you to realize the benefits of Zero Tolerance.

[sertman]

Re: Zero tolerance

Tass: you're forgetting that we have this thing called the "constitution" and we believe in "human rights"

Not to mention what happens if somebody is wrongly convicted, and likewise gets the **** beaten out of them, then it is found out that they are innocent, and they sue the government for billions? It's not an unplausible scenerio considering the lavish payouts that people get because McDonalds didn't let the consumer know that their coffee was hot. You'll find that you'll end up spending the money that you save from potentially housing prisoners on paying the wrongly tortured

[trillobyite]

Re: Zero tolerance

Zero Tolerance is a pretty good deterrent, imo. With more officers, people will be aware of the police's abilities, and crime rates statistically go down when the ability to get caught rises. With strict punishment, criminals are ensured that if caught, they won't get off easy. Finally, zero tolerance can prevent recidivism or reoffense because it cuts short the cycle of intensity-escalating crimes.

Edit: The Constitution provides rights for the accused, very little rights for criminals (excluding cruel and unusual punishment).

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Zero tolerance

Sert: those huge jury verdicts on civil suits NEVER are the actual payouts...

BUT... how about "tort reform" and "appeals process". I didn't mention it, but I kinda assumed that the appeals process would be lengthier. I'm guessing this would still result in being cheaper than all the prisons we currently have.

Regardless, nothing we say here makes any different... so "constitution" and "human rights" are meaningless. BESIDES... does the constitution list penalties for crimes? Is it not inhuman to kill or rape someone? Why should they be given rights that they have already abused.

In the end, it is wishful thinking, because our Constitution does allow for absolute abuse of the system for all criminals. At least California is getting somewhere with their "3 strikes and you're in" law.

[Tps222]

Re: Zero tolerance

Sert: That is why I suggested Artificial Intelligence replace cops, and how it would compliment Tass's idea much more.

[flamingspinach]

Re: Zero tolerance

First of all, let's establish, are we talking about the United States here?

Regardless, nothing we say here makes any different... so "constitution" and "human rights" are meaningless. BESIDES... does the constitution list penalties for crimes? Is it not inhuman to kill or rape someone? Why should they be given rights that they have already abused.

Uh, I fail to see how "constitution" and "human rights" are meaningless simply because we are not actually making policy. Isn't the point of this to talk about the hypothetical advantages and disadvantages of such a method IN PRACTICE? If it's not in practice then none of your advantages matter either >_> Furthermore, no, it is not inhuman to rape or murder someone. It's just highly counterproductive in a civilized society. Nothing that anyone does should make them a pariah of the species. And what's worse is that there are tons of people convicted of crimes for which they are innocent. Are those people inhuman too?

People need to get off their high horses and realize that everyone is human, even criminals, and that in a desperate situation, EVERY ONE OF US might easily choose to commit a crime. Don't judge people, try to help them instead. I'm amazed at how people are pissing on the Declaration of Independence. Isn't America supposed to be a "free country"? wtf is this? (again I assume we're talking about America here)

compliment

complement

-fs

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Zero tolerance

See: appeal process. You also have to break a few eggs to make a good omelet, or so the expression goes.

And, as I said... the constitution says nothing of punishment. So what makes my suggested punishment wrong and yours right? No where did I say to get rid of the legal system that convicts criminals.

[flamingspinach]

Re: Zero tolerance

There's another far more famous expression that goes "Love thy neighbor as thyself".

What I'm saying is that without leniency in the legal system you may get a decrease in crime (which, note, is a statistic innately defined by the government) but you also get an increase in chilling effects, which is simply not acceptable for a country that purports itself to be founded on principles of freedom and democracy.

-fs

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Zero tolerance

Obviously it will never happen in the USA. It already is in place in other countries (as stated). The whole point is that WOULD this be a better way to have things, not WILL it be put into place.

[flamingspinach]

Re: Zero tolerance

True, I'm arguing under the assumption that the concept of individual freedom is sacrosanct. This is not always the case. For example - Singapore, where I'll be moving this fall. Weird stuff o.o

[sertman]

Re: Zero tolerance

So we just beat the living snot out of anyone who commits a crime? From teenage music downloaders to assaults by people who grew up in an abusive home and don't know any better? From underage drinkers to rapists?

You act like prison is a cakewalk. Do me a favor and go out and rent the movie "Scared Straight" and tell me if you think that prison is easy.