Zero tolerance

[trillobyite]

"Crime rates and particularly the rates of violent and gun related crimes are rising in most rich countries. Targets for blame include higher drug use, higher inequality and greater availability of weapons. While Liberal politics tends to favour rehabilitation and structural improvement to combat crime the right wing has always seen criminality as a rational choice that can be combated by deterrence. Zero Tolerance policing aims to stop serious crime by clamping down on the minor crimes like graffiti that the practitioners believe lead to further crimes and using custodial sentences for first offences. It includes set responses to particular crimes by the police although the courts maintain some discretion. Zero Tolerance is not necessarily exclusive of urban regeneration, social investment or community policing. Its exponents, however, often rule them out because of their political philosophy." (Sebastian Isaac)

Well, that's a nice opening, so what do you guys think? Is Zero Tolerance worthwile or not?

[ruifio894]

Re: Zero tolerance

It's a matter of opinion man. I personally think sometimes "Zero Tolerance" would be the only way to stop serious crimes. In a way, it would intimidate criminals. What do you think?

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Zero tolerance

Honestly, I'd rather see cruel and unusual punishment. Maybe a combination of both? If that wasn't a crime deterrent, I don't know what would be...

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[BluE_MeaniE]

Re: Zero tolerance

I just can't help but feel that if you need a harsh deterrent, there's a major problem in the first place. I remember hearing something about Plato saying you know a city is "happy" when it's in order and when you take away the police force and all that, it stays in order.

What's the solution? I don't know. It's got to be somewhere in the middle. But I'm not sure zero tolerance would help things any more than a ton of tolerance.

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Zero tolerance

I say adopt a penal code similar to that of Singapore or certain other harsh nations.

Let's bring back lashings, stonings, beheadings, and torture.

If you commit a crime, you receive physical pain. You commit a harsh crime, you die. No more prisons, no more worrying about how many tax dollars are going to maintaining the lives of criminals, and chances are... the crime rate will go down drastically.

And that would then lead to smaller police forces which again would lower tax spending in this sector.

Elect Tass and get corporal punishment. Graffiti? Lashing! Stealing? Lashing! Assault? Removal of a limb! None of that eye-for-an-eye bull****; you do something, you get it back twice as hard. Rape someone? Penis removal! Repeat offender? DEATH! Kill someone? You AND your immediate family all die!

I guarentee a drastic decline in crime, nationwide.

[Grandiagod]

Re: Zero tolerance

Or they could just make Chardish head of some sort of Punishment Commitee or something.

[Chrissi]

Re: Zero tolerance

I say adopt a penal code similar to that of Singapore or certain other harsh nations.

Let's bring back lashings, stonings, beheadings, and torture.

If you commit a crime, you receive physical pain. You commit a harsh crime, you die. No more prisons, no more worrying about how many tax dollars are going to maintaining the lives of criminals, and chances are... the crime rate will go down drastically.

And that would then lead to smaller police forces which again would lower tax spending in this sector.

Elect Tass and get corporal punishment. Graffiti? Lashing! Stealing? Lashing! Assault? Removal of a limb! None of that eye-for-an-eye bull****; you do something, you get it back twice as hard. Rape someone? Penis removal! Repeat offender? DEATH! Kill someone? You AND your immediate family all die!

I guarentee a drastic decline in crime, nationwide.

Duh, because you're killing all the criminals so there's nobody left to do crime.

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Zero tolerance

Not just that Chrissi... the threat of punishment for doing the crime is MUCH more severe, which becomes an even greater hurdle for potential criminals to get over before they start doing criminal acts.

Not that it really matters... it'll never happen.

[Tps222]

Re: Zero tolerance

I'd rather have the Police Force to be a centralized system of Artificial intelligence. Can't shoot down a robot. Robot's can't become dirty cops, justice will be held directly to the programming of it without emotional interference.

This would work much better with Tass's plan of action.

[flamingspinach]

Re: Zero tolerance

Wow, people - you all seem to be forgetting that you don't necessarily have the choice to decide what's a punishable offense and what isn't. Zero tolerance compromises democracy because it puts a damper on minimal "crimes" of protest, such as graffiti. Also, what if they enact a law that you disagree with? Most people tend to think of the laws as just and righteous but often (not necessarily with bad intent) they'll overlook something, like zoning conflicts and whatnot, which cause people to have to go to great lengths and hardships to avoid breaking a stupid law. Tolerance allows society to function properly, and zero tolerance policies are simply a step in the direction of fascism.

-fs

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Zero tolerance

civil law, sports law, real estate, tort law, etc etc wouldn't be under this...

we're talking criminal law. therefore, your post is meaningless.

[Hr2]

Re: Zero tolerance

I agree with flamingspinach. Zero tolerance is not the way to go, most serious criminals can still be rehabilitated (Although sometimes repeat offenders of serious crimes such as murder or rape deserve to be shot.) and even if it costs some money it works out better in the long run. People should be obedient to laws because they respect the laws, as some random faggit said optional obedience is better than forced obedience. Obviously, people would take advantage of this if that was the whole philosophy we lived by, but there is some truth in it. If the only way to keep the people under control is by an iron fist, the government is doing something wrong.

Also, I don't believe in the idea of "gateway crimes", what a crock of ****. So you're an artist or you're just out for fun and you spraypaint a wall, that doesn't mean they'll later become a murderer or a burgaler, it just means that they defaced some public property. Vandalism is seen by many as a victimless crime, and therefore it doesn't take a perverted and criminal mind to commit it. Also what about con artists? They care nothing for human emotions and steal mercilessly, they are decently serious criminals, but they don't rape and murder people. There are no such things as gateway crimes, and people can reform. An iron fist isn't neccissary.

[flamingspinach]

Re: Zero tolerance

civil law, sports law, real estate, tort law, etc etc wouldn't be under this...

we're talking criminal law. therefore, your post is meaningless.

All right then, my example no longer applies - but the point of my post is certainly still valid. People only suggest harsher punishments by the strength of their unshakeable faith that if they follow their conscience they will never fall under the hooves, so to speak, of such punishments. However, laws are fickle, and this becomes a slippery slope. The harsher the punishment you exact upon others, the greater the risk you are putting yourself in as well - fortunes change and we are all human.

Also, Hr2's post reminded me - it costs the government more to imprison someone for a year than a lot of people (especially ones poor enough to fall into criminal patterns) earn in a year, and much more to imprison people for a full sentence than to rehabilitate them once.

-fs

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Zero tolerance

Hence why my post pointed out that my solution would lower tax dollars spent on the penal system. Which, in the end, is the thing that people care about the most.

Would just be an excellent benefit that crime would likely drastically decrease.

[skyrunner06]

Re: Zero tolerance

people are still going to kill and steal just cause they want to nomatter what we do they wont stop