Stop Caring About Being Smart

[Arch0wl]

* motivational writing
* somewhat nsfw language if this forum has a rule about that or something, idk
* link: https://alfredmacdonald.com/2016/12/...t-being-smart/

it's written with something of an archetype in mind, but I guarantee you know at least a couple of people who should hear something like this

[XelNya]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

This is actually one of the best things I've read in a while.

[XCV]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

the subset of internet motivational writing that isn't about working out and/or saying cuss words has measure zero

i agree with the thrust of this post, and it's something i have benefited from bearing in mind, but every goddamn time i see a person name domain name it feels like the same tired shtick

[MinaciousGrace]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

you had me convinced at stop caring

[Arch0wl]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

the subset of internet motivational writing that isn't about working out and/or saying cuss words has measure zero

i agree with the thrust of this post, and it's something i have benefited from bearing in mind, but every goddamn time i see a person name domain name it feels like the same tired shtick

understandable, but all of that is coincidental. also, I wrote this, to be clear.

my post history is readily available on here, so it's not like the swearing is feigned. I've always talked like that.

lifting is a common motivational topic, but I mention it because (a) it's difficult; (b) it's necessarily humiliating at first; (c) a lot of people shy away from it for irrational reasons, despite its overwhelming benefits, and (d) it's a physiological process that doesn't get engaged by most people

as for the person name domain name,

* that is my name
* I use it as a storage place for my writing
* idk wtf else to call it
* if anything, calling it something other than my name feels more pretentious?

[devonin]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

That was exceedingly obvious, and anybody to whom it is news is probably not interested in considering it anyway.

[Arch0wl]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

ok

I don't agree with either part of that sentence. both of those things are reflections of your intuitive probabilities -- 'obviousness' in particular is often just hindsight bias -- and not much more than expressions of your personal experiences.

even if I took you to be right though, it delineates a motivational strategy for people who do agree, who can engage the "not interested in considering" demographic on other fora.

[devonin]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

Of course you don't agree with either part of the sentence. If the sentiments of the post are obvious, then nothing effective was gained in publishing it. If it won't reach anybody except the people who already understand it, ditto. Your own bias requires you to believe that it is a fresh and new idea that will excite and engage people, or else you wasted your time writing it or sharing it. And who'd want to feel that way?

The basic gist of your message appears to be "Find a way to just not care that part of trying to succeed is failing. Learn to accept that failing is still growth, and keep acting anyway. Stop caring what other people think about your attempts."

And I still believe it is fair to say that nobody who is currently constraining themselves from trying something because of fear they will fail, or shame at failing in front of people who've already succeeded is going to be convinced by "Oh, just stop feeling that way" especially coming from somebody who basically represents the source of that fear and shame: Somebody who claims to have already succeeded.

When the whole suggested process for how to succeed is "Well, basically, you just keep doing it until you succeed and don't give a shit about any of the consequences of failure along the way" the people for whom those consequences matter greatly will likely actually find those feelings reinforced rather than removed.

[Arch0wl]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

wow, motive fallacy from the start. even though I gave stated reasons for the disagreement -- they're just intuitive guesses based on your experience -- you ignored them for motives you imagine I have just because.

this has already helped a few people, so the bias you mentioned isn't really in play here. FFR is a small fraction of my total views. I posted this for the benefit of people here, to read at their leisure. I don't have any expectations for what it will accomplish. you're incredibly presumptuous to presume my motives in spite of me telling you what my reasons for disagreeing are.

The basic gist of your message appears to be "Find a way to just not care that part of trying to succeed is failing. Learn to accept that failing is still growth, and keep acting anyway. Stop caring what other people think about your attempts."

And I

if that's what the gist appears to be, get better at judging sentences before transitioning to "and". (and unless there's a complex gist, which there isn't, 'basic gist' is redundant.)

"don't give a shit about any of the consequences of failure" is not congruent with the message here. I emphasized alternate criteria, and therefore consequences, over intelligence. if the consequences of your failure are severe enough, of course you should give a shit about them. the message here is that the consequences for stupidity in particular are imagined and overblown, which creates a false impression of what the stakes are. consequences for other things, like removal of your work license or loss of college funding or going to jail, are still absolutely worth giving a shit about.

really not sure what the point of you replying here was if you weren't even going to read the post or bother to get my attitude and motivations right. I'm not going to presume your motives, but you don't strike me as being sincere or forthright.

[devonin]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

wow, motive fallacy from the start. even though I gave stated reasons for the disagreement -- they're just intuitive guesses based on your experience -- you ignored them for motives you imagine I have just because.

Ah the curse of the self-taught philosopher.

[Arch0wl]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

yeah I'm not sure if I've even taken a single philosophy class let me check my transcript real quick

[Arch0wl]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

but my criticism would be legitimate whether it's self-taught or not, and you're just barking at shit that's logically irrelevant to what you wrote, which is doubly unproductive since what you wrote was superfluous here anyway

[devonin]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

Then I wonder why on earth you would try claiming that I committed a motive fallacy.

In order to do that I would have had to object to your point on the grounds of your motives for making the point, which I did not do.

You posted a thing.

I replied basically saying my perception is that you are preaching to the choir and the deaf.

You said you don't agree that you are.

I pointed out that it should have gone without saying that you didn't agree with that. Because if you agreed that you were, you wouldn't have wasted your time writing and publishing it in the first place.

I mean, the strongest implication of my response to your article is that I agree with it. I can't be attacking your position on the grounds of -anything- if I -agree- with your position.

My point was about whether it is going to reach anybody for whom it will be effective.

People who already feel this way will say "Yes, that is correct" and keep doing what they are doing.

People who don't already feel this way, in my perception and experience, are apt to see a message that seems to amount to "This thing is ineffective, just stop doing it" and say "Easy for you to say, if I could just -stop- having this be a problem, I'd already be doing it"

Saw a post by Milo just today basically saying "I quit smoking, and I did it by just quitting, and not being a pussy. No patches, no other crap, just deciding to stop and stopping" and I mean, rock on for him if he actually pulls it off. But that is SO MUCH easier said than done for people who aren't already able to just do things like that, that the message that all we need to do is what he did, stop being a pussy and just do it, is manifestly not helpful.

[Arch0wl]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

Then I wonder why on earth you would try claiming that I committed a motive fallacy.

oh okay so you spent the first sentence or two ignoring my stated reason and going on about what you think my ulterior motive is just because you like doing that then

bullshit, but this tactic isn't beneath you

anyway, okay, you think this isn't helpful. great. next?

gonna address this though:

(quitting smoking) is SO MUCH easier said than done for people who aren't already able to just do things like that

they're able. they're just not willing. those are two different things.

the "just do it" genre of rhetoric is not merely saying "just do it", or it'd be trivial. they're another way of saying "the things you think make you unable to do things don't actually make you unable, so just ignore them and act as if you could do it. just do it."

[Mahou]

Re: Stop Caring About Being Smart

Interesting essay you wrote. I really enjoyed the part where you mentioned lifting weights.

I wouldn't say this article has taught me anything, but it gives me some sort of reassurance that what I'm doing is healthy for me. I used to be very skinny, borderline alcoholic, and a chain smoker (smoked for 7 years). I believe that most people are capable of making a complete change in their lives depending on how bad they want it. I also believe that they're some people who don't have the mental fortitude to quit things like smoking. Sadly, not everyone is not that strong minded.

If I had read this article a year a go, this would probably would do the complete opposite of what its intentions are - probably because the "just do it" message never really worked for me. You just kind of have to give a shit and learn to prioritize what's truly important.