Snowden

[FoJaR]

Re: Snowden

that the NSA monitors communications? nah pretty sure everyone already knew that.

[PaperclipGames]

Re: Snowden

I'm wondering about how many actual crimes the US government commits with help of the information obtained by the NSA, compared to how much they prevent with the help of the information obtained by the NSA. Fojar seems to believe a lot more harm is prevented than caused, but I'm unsure.

[Attractive]

Re: Snowden

hooooooooly shit man better wear that tin foil helmet or the Grays might track you down and steal your precious bodily fluids.

read up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Horman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Argentina

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Colombia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Peru

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_act...s_in_Venezuela

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Br..._d%27%C3%A9tat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Bolivia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_act...s_in_Nicaragua

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Honduras

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Libya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iraq

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_act...in_Afghanistan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Turkey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Syria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabotage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_operation




and this is all stuff thats on wikipedia so you know theres a lot more stuff that isnt it public..

[FoJaR]

Re: Snowden

yeah some of that stuff happened (i only read like 5 of them because so many links, and some of them were conspiracy theory stuff) but you're taking acts and ascribing motivations for those acts for which there is no evidence.

the US government (at least post bush era) is not looking to start fights where there are none.

[Attractive]

Re: Snowden

yeah some of that stuff happened (i only read like 5 of them because so many links, and some of them were conspiracy theory stuff) but you're taking acts and ascribing motivations for those acts for which there is no evidence.

the US government (at least post bush era) is not looking to start fights where there are none.

point out the stuff you say is a conspiracy because i dont know what youre even talking about..



ok so you have an organization that has a history of clandestine involvement in the affairs of other countries and operates under a code of secrecy, there are even records of this organization's involvement in the overthrowing of various governments. ever since the creation of this organization their m.o. has been the shaping of foreign politics through subterfuge, sabotage, spying, the use of undercover agents, and generally the disruption of groups whose aims are not conducive to the aims of the usa. you are assuming that this organization no longer does this? you are assuming that they do not play a role in all of the chaos that is going on in the middle east? that is incredibly naive...almost forcefully so. if you look at what they have done in the past you can see what they are capable of. it is no conspiracy theory, just an educated guess based on the organization's prior history and how they operate.






edit: i should have been clearer in my first post.

i said that the government wants more terrorists... while they may not always want more terrorists, they dont want "terrorism" to stop. if "terrorism" were to stop then the pretext of US involvement in the middle east would be completely invalid and the militarization of police at home would be much less justified. terrorism is a word the government uses to demonize people and justify extreme actions like torture and the bombing of civilians. it is impossible for terrorism to stop because the people claiming to fight terrorism are the same people who have defined what terrorism is and can thus turn anything into a terrorist act simply by saying it was so. the real threat of terrorism to your everyday american is pretty much non-existent.

[adlp]

Re: Snowden

the US government (at least post bush era) is not looking to start fights where there are none.

so close to syria though

[FoJaR]

Re: Snowden

i said that the government wants more terrorists... while they may not always want more terrorists, they dont want "terrorism" to stop. if "terrorism" were to stop then the pretext of US involvement in the middle east would be completely invalid and the militarization of police at home would be much less justified. terrorism is a word the government uses to demonize people and justify extreme actions like torture and the bombing of civilians. it is impossible for terrorism to stop because the people claiming to fight terrorism are the same people who have defined what terrorism is and can thus turn anything into a terrorist act simply by saying it was so. the real threat of terrorism to your everyday american is pretty much non-existent.

i mean you're just wrong. people in the CIA dont sit around scanning reports for things that they can use to knowingly target foreign citizens.

you have no idea what you're talking about man. have you ever heard of a suicide bombing facilitator? have you watched international news ever? you know that the USA is not the only country that is targeted right?

if you think terrorism is something that the government makes up, i have a few links for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2002
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2003
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2004
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2005
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncidents,_2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...80%93June_2011
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...3December_2011
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...80%93June_2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...3December_2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...80%93June_2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...3December_2013

yeah sorry at the end there they have to start breaking the list in half cause it's too long otherwise.

[Attractive]

Re: Snowden

i mean you're just wrong. people in the CIA dont sit around scanning reports for things that they can use to knowingly target foreign citizens.

you have no idea what you're talking about man. have you ever heard of a suicide bombing facilitator? have you watched international news ever? you know that the USA is not the only country that is targeted right?

if you think terrorism is something that the government makes up, i have a few links for you:


yeah sorry at the end there they have to start breaking the list in half cause it's too long otherwise.

you are clearly so biased that you have closed your eyes to any thing which your government has told you not to believe. all of your arguments are straight from the horses mouth. those links dont prove anything. did you even read through all of them? do you even know the stories of each of the individual incidents? some of the "terror" incidents even had the central intelligence agency listed as the perpetrator. some of them were simple executions and shootouts... hardly "terrorist" activities. in the international community, terrorism has no binding criminal law definition.... therefore it IS something that the government made up. plain and simple, terrorism is a word the government uses to demonize groups of people and justify horrific crimes. you can make a list of incidents and call them "terrorist incidents", but what does that accomplish aside from sensationalizing the incidents?

[FoJaR]

Re: Snowden

by your definition, everything is made up, because it's just some word that someone made to describe something

[FoJaR]

Re: Snowden

it's terror because they're killing civilians indiscriminately to make a point.

[Tps222]

Re: Snowden

I think he's saying that there isn't a commonly accepted standard to define acts of terror for statistical data.

[FoJaR]

Re: Snowden

and i'm saying that statistical data is not what we're arguing. his argument is that terrorism is made up, and i'm saying that it's not. there are people who kill just to make a point

[Tps222]

Re: Snowden

Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/16/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1


He's a god damn hero.