Morals

[Phynx]

This is somewhat of a rant/discussion thread that I am genuinely curious how you all feel about. It comes down to peoples morals in respect to faith, loyalty, and kindness.

Those three fall into the "love" type of relationships that I'm curious on your thoughts about. It seems like to me that as the days become more modern, people are letting their minds stray from faith and loyalty from those they love. I personally feel I'm part of a dying breed of traditional folks.

Lately I'm encountering more and more people, namely my close friends, friends of friends and several relatives including immediate family who just don't care about their relationships anymore. It disgusts me. I understand that the social media we have at our disposal makes this an easy feat to be able to cheat on someone under the radar but what REALLY irks me is how proud both men and women are getting about the act. What put me in this state of discontent is my two closest friends who live with me are both dating girls and they excitedly tell me how they banged this random chick at the bar or at someone's house, etc etc. I'm disgusted to see that the friends I hold closest to me are this vile.

I know their girlfriends very well and they are great girls, girls I'd be overwhelmed to have as my own. But they are just proud when they get the opportunity to cheat on them. It blows me away. But it's not sequestered to them alone. A few members of my family, and several friends around me are succumbing to this trend. Sadly, and I am NOT trying to sound sexist, but, I am seeing this happen moreso in the girls I've seen and met as opposed to all the guys I've known and met. It really bothers me when I hear songs that praise the act of infidelity. It's absolutely atrocious. Maybe I'm overreacting but answer me this. When did faith in a relationship become second to someone's pride?

As a guy who's been cheated on(whilst in very stable relationships as far as I knew) by 3 different girls, I feel the need to vent about this swiftly growing problem. I've never cheated on the ones I'm with, I will admit I almost fell prey to the act once in my life and after 3.5 years I still feel the guilt about it. But I will never cheat on the ones I'm with and want to know there are those out there like me who believe in traditional values like I.

What's your guys feelings on this topic? Do you see the trend growing yourself? Do you get proud when you cheat on your gf/bf?

[04im]

Re: Morals

people come and go in life

i don't think it's a new trend at all.. if anything it's become easier to find out if people have been cheating on you because of social media (evidence on the computer, phone, portable devices and whatnot..)

so i think it's just a part of finding that special someone that you will stay with for the rest of your life - the only difference is how many people do you go through (depending on how active of a social life you've lead in the past)

in the end, both men and women cheat & proactively search for partners (whether it be temporary or for the rest of your life) - social media has made this easier but social media has also made it easier to quickly figure out if your partner has been cheating on you

keep searchin' man

[drizzleRomanceGirl]

Re: Morals

I also find it horrible that people will cheat on their partner. However, I personally have never dated anyone in my life yet, so I can't state my personal experiences with dating. Unfortunately, I do notice how much people near me think it's okay to damage their relationships without a second thought. I'm not entirely sure whether this phenomenon has occurred increasingly in recent times, but with all the media I've seen about divorce and taking relationships with a grain of salt, it does seem likely that people are taking this to heart. I hope more people realize how important relationships are and learn to hold them in much higher regard.

[Phynx]

Re: Morals

Okay, so my current gf is away for 6 months(in the army, going through Basic at this point) and I have complete faith in her to stay a straight course for us and not play around with guys there. Of course it still worries me but I won't stray from my foundations. What's also bothering me is my brother who isn't too fond of her and my friends that live with me, who don't mind her, have been telling me and urging me to just go out and date/fuck other girls. I've explained in vigorous detail to the point of severe irritation that, that very notion rattles me to the core. Yet they persist on getting me to just go out and cheat on her and ending it because they think I can do better. I'm about to lose my best friends and I've already exploded on my brother about the topic......

Infidelity is one topic I absolutely go off my rocker over. I'm losing faith in people the more I see it happen.

[JohnRedWolf87]

Re: Morals

I think your perception of people has more to do with your environment. Although you can't help how your family is, you might want to find you some new/better friends.

[Phynx]

Re: Morals

I think your perception of people has more to do with your environment. Although you can't help how your family is, you might want to find you some new/better friends.

It breaks my heart cause these are folks I grew up with, and truly thought were morally upstanding people. Only recently in the last couple weeks did they show me their pride for very immoral actions. Bleh.

[Mollocephalus]

Re: Morals

Being faithful to your significant other has nothing to do with traditions. It's a way to keep your couple united. If traditions taught us anything is that facade bigotry only hides private perversion. As anaru said people used to cheat about the same if not more... Basically your only fault in this would be a failure to grasp your friends' and/or significant other's personality- therefore depicting them in your head as better/stronger people than they really are.

Just remember one thing: cheating is a natural behavior, loyality is a social construct. One has to feel very strongly about it to make it work, and still sometimes fall for it in certain special occasions. However if the couple is strong it can go through even a base-shaking event such as a momentary failure...

[Phynx]

Re: Morals

Being faithful to your significant other has nothing to do with traditions. It's a way to keep your couple united. If traditions taught us anything is that facade bigotry only hides private perversion. As anaru said people used to cheat about the same if not more... Basically your only fault in this would be a failure to grasp your friends' and/or significant other's personality- therefore depicting them in your head as better/stronger people than they really are.

Just remember one thing: cheating is a natural behavior, loyality is a social construct. One has to feel very strongly about it to make it work, and still sometimes fall for it in certain special occasions. However if the couple is strong it can go through even a base-shaking event such as a momentary failure...

Makes sense and very understandable. But one fact remains, why submit to pride when doing such things? Why do I see people smiling, laughing, and having a jolly time talking about and portraying their acts of infidelity?

EDIT: As for the "traditional" aspect. I mean that in a subjective manner. As in I was raised in the tradition that faith in your relationships comes above all other necessities to your partner. If you maintain faith, you maintain trust and love.

[Hakulyte]

Re: Morals

Welcome to real life. Money governs you. You're this country's property. You're a human being product known as a consumer. A consumer makes money to consume products which includes other human beings. You can buy a gf/bf, do everything you want and eventually buy a better one if you're not satisfied or if it rebels against you because of your poor decisions. As religion is slowly losing it's value, morals are going down as well and unless something who supports moral values come back and make people realize what they're doing is not right. People will just keep trading bed partners in hope to generate profit in any possible way as fidelity, loyalty and kindness no longer has the same value as it used to.

[Spenner]

Re: Morals

I disagree that cheating is a natural behaviour. I would argue that seeking personal emotional equilibrium is a natural behaviour, and that cheating is sometimes done in order to do such a thing, if you are with a partner that does not satisfy a certain emotional requirement.

I think cheating has to do with just being with someone for reasons you aren't totally aligned with mutually. If there's more lust than emotional attachment, those sorts of things. Greed also plays a role when you are wanting to satisfy the most potentially gratifying fetish of yours, or something to that extend. I'm sure its sexually driven, but not because you WANT to cheat per se. It's that you're more impulsive with your sexuality, and have less control pursuing what feels right.

You might feel like you know certain people on an emotionally close level that other people do not feel. These girls might be with people that they were driven to date because of visually stunning features that made it easy to overlook some of the less favorable social or personal traits. It's a painful, but ultimately wise experience for them to go through, realizing that they musn't have naivety when it comes to letting yourself love someone. That also goes down with choosing who to emotionally trust, who to let be a totally natural output for your feelings. If you're with someone who toys with you, who is not respectful of the feelings you express to them, you're in the wrong spot.

Hopefully they only have to encounter something as terrible as that once, it's unfortunate that it happened to them. I hope that the men can be more self aware of their greedily driven impulses or whatever it be. I try to have empathy for the people I meet and build friendships/relationships with. I wouldn't want to hurt them as I can vividly imagine the impact the same thing would have on me. The men in these situations are jerks, and chicks like them sometimes. Sucks but I guess that's how it goes.

[Spenner]

Re: Morals

Makes sense and very understandable. But one fact remains, why submit to pride when doing such things? Why do I see people smiling, laughing, and having a jolly time talking about and portraying their acts of infidelity?

Sometimes it's a rush to these people, a chance to express the idea that they are in control, they can do what they want, and are free to do so. They lack any empathy to their partner and are clearly trying to fake their way into using partners for whatever they like, quite like a sociopath. There are a lot of those out there, and they lack a true warm heart until something comes back to them personally and interrupts whatever emotions they do fuel themselves off of.

[Phynx]

Re: Morals

Welcome to real life. Money governs you. You're this country's property. You're a human being product known as a consumer. A consumer makes money to consume products which includes other human beings. You can buy a gf/bf, do everything you want and eventually buy a better one if you're not satisfied or if it rebels against you because of your poor decisions. As religion is slowly losing it's value, morals are going down as well and unless something who supports moral values come back and make people realize what they're doing is not right. People will just keep trading bed partners in hope to generate profit in any possible way as fidelity, loyalty and kindness no longer has the same value as it used to.

At first my mindtrack looked like this:

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but then your post made it do this

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but after concentrating on your metaphors, I came back to my:

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one track mind.

You do make sense though, be it through a rather obfuscated way. I just wish I could see more upstanding people than what I see every day. About the only ones I know are good to the core are the elderly men and women who've been married to their high school sweethearts for 50+ years... and my own parents. Honestly I haven't, to my immediate memory, experienced a couple younger than 35 who haven't strayed from good morals.

[Mollocephalus]

Re: Morals

why submit to pride when doing such things? Why do I see people smiling, laughing, and having a jolly time talking about and portraying their acts of infidelity?

Starting from the fact these people are probably deeply insecure, otherwise they wouldn't need anything of the sort, this kind of behaviour is more about being able to conquer, Some people need to be reassured about themselves in this way. Just like many young people smoke because it's a bad "forbidden" thing. Human logic, man. Sadly, when something is perceived as taboo it becomes exponentially more intriguing... if you're too dense to see it for what it really is.

I was raised in the tradition that faith in your relationships comes above all other necessities to your partner. If you maintain faith, you maintain trust and love.

Faith in a relationship is a good starting point, but not everything. SO your relationship can fail even if it's lacking on some other things.

Also, do remember that alternative social structures exist and/or have existed. Think for example of a social group of 10 people, mixed men and women. In this group sexuality and reproduction is promiscuous and they all agree with it. When a woman gives birth to a baby, they all raise as if it was their own. A baby has multiple mothers and fathers as role models. the concept of faith has been dismantled for a broader conception of family. As absurd as it may sound, this is an alternative. Not for everyone, i suppose, but it is. Another example, far less extreme, is to have a couple and agree for a three-way with another person. Or have an open couple and both agree with sexual freedom.

[Spenner]

Re: Morals

Your discomfort and empathy towards the women and the way you're upset from it is also inhibiting yourself from allowing full understanding as to why they might do what they do, I think. I try to imagine it as finding a way to justify a terrible crime-- to a judge trying to do that, there's not a lot that can support that. So in this state of mind you might just be needing to express your distaste of what's gone on. Understanding can only be experienced when you are in neutrality of your own emotions towards the situation and just putting yourself in their shoes entirely.

It takes discipline to stop you from making a bias of your imaginations in any way-- but it can be done, to put yourself in their shoes. Having a mind that is blank canvas is usually the only way unless you have personal experience/can pull out a strong metaphor for understanding what it's like.

I could just be rambling, but I just feel its a way to get a stronger grasp of their state of mind. I'm not saying to at all let yourself rationalize it-- this is just so you can get a stronger idea of how wrong they are in what they do :P

[Spenner]

Re: Morals

Starting from the fact these people are probably deeply insecure, otherwise they wouldn't need anything of the sort, this kind of behaviour is more about being able to conquer, Some people need to be reassured about themselves in this way. Just like many young people smoke because it's a bad "forbidden" thing. Human logic, man. Sadly, when something is perceived as taboo it becomes exponentially more intriguing... if you're too dense to see it for what it really is.

I think this is a cultural mentality and if it wasn't supported in society EVERYWHERE it would be a lot easier to look past. It seems we're too tightly drawn to irrational responses towards these things. The rush of being edgy and against the current gives them a self status that's above any other state they could be in. Full time douchebags and guidos can be shaped with that in the backs of their minds ~

Also, do remember that alternative social structures exist and/or have existed. Think for example of a social group of 10 people, mixed men and women. In this group sexuality and reproduction is promiscuous and they all agree with it. When a woman gives birth to a baby, they all raise as if it was their own. A baby has multiple mothers and fathers as role models. the concept of faith has been dismantled for a broader conception of family. As absurd as it may sound, this is an alternative. Not for everyone, i suppose, but it is. Another example, far less extreme, is to have a couple and agree for a three-way with another person. Or have an open couple and both agree with sexual freedom.

Sure, but then I think you're just putting them in a situation that feels like an adoption/foster parents type situation where they have nothing set in stone. There's no focus to their emotional bonding and no archetypal guardian figure in their life, so they might feel depressed or something negative as a result of this, or feel like it's okay to continue that system of commitment, and just have dozens of partners as they come and go.