Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

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  • Zageron
    Zageron E. Tazaterra
    FFR Administrator
    • Apr 2007
    • 6592

    #1

    Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

    Thank you for taking the time to read through this post. It is going to change frequently with new ideas and expansions, so reading it again once in a while might be beneficial. I have a request to any and all that read this:
    Please dissect this idea. Pull it a part, rip out the areas you dislike, and fill it in with the things that you believe would make it better. Make this idea your own! I will then take your idea into consideration and adjust mine with any strong traits that you're contribution may have.

    Introduction
    Flash Flash revolution has been a powerful player in the rhythm gaming world, especially in the past, and is slowly making its recovery back in to the dying scene. A brand new staffing team, unpaid but very dedicated, has slowly brought FFR into a new standard. Far surpassing that of it's old self, and belittling the achievements of it's previous staff, most of who have moved off on to other projects. This new staff has rewritten countless lines of old code, created a new game engine, and improved the layout over the old profile code. With plans for new games, profile chat upgrades, profile rewrite, upgraded systems on the blog stream, and many other interesting features; though the drive is there the resounding truth sounds that FFR is much less popular than it was before and there isn't much that 'upgrading' and 'enhancing' can do about it.


    Summary
    FFR can not hold the interest of new players very easily, especially people who are just coming in to the rhythm scene. This is a serious problem that needs to be approached carefully, from a few different angles, in order to tackle correctly. What this community site needs in order to obtain a new height in popularity is a near profitless record label, a community link, and high compatibility with the ever expanding mobile world. This means a complete structural rewrite, which was previous planned, and a solid business plan.


    Music Distribution
    Another interesting idea to cross the development board is that of a music distribution system. The amount of independent musicians that live at, or come through, Flash Flash Revolution is astounding and the music they produce is very good. FFR has long shared this great music with the community through their games, so why not offer the musicians a chance at some cash for their accomplishments. Having an “Online Store” for musicians to host their music for people to buy, download for free, would be a very powerful way to spread word of FFR. A rhythm game in which to sample the musicians music, a place to buy it, and a community to discuss the music. Musicians would get feedback on their works, publicity, and money! White FFR would gain a possibly heavy following of people awaiting the newest music from their favourite artists! (What else is new?)
    Clarification: This is not at all similar to what was done before. The widgets that FFR developed before were a stunt to gain money and support from popular musicians. This would be either an extremely low profit, or a non-profit, way of distributing the music of FFR's users! Many people come to FFR and leave it producing music as the community here gives them the support and guidance they might need, FFR could help make them a small amount of cash and perhaps the publicity they need to take off as a music producer.


    Community Link
    There have been many discussions about creating new communities within the rhythm scene, and already new communities have branched off such as KBO, SMO, and TS. New ideas pop up every once in a while, and grow rapidly with the support of a small number of dedicated SM/FFR members. FFR has been a long standing hub for SM players to share their scores or discuss their play styles, and seeing people branching off to create their own forums and websites is nice. However, why should they leave? Shouldn't FFR be more dynamic and help support these communities and their needs? Why not host scoreboards for these games? Yes, hosting massive databases is a heavy server load, but out-hosting them on separate servers, while simply displaying them on pages here would work just as well. Other people would most definitely be willing to outsource databases and file hosts.
    FFR [dot] com would be a rhythm gaming central station. Where any and all people interested in rhythm gaming would congregate to, to gain access to any and all affiliated rhythm games. These other rhythm games would absolutely in no way be managed or owned by FFR, and be run by their respective creators and staff. For example if KBO was to affiliate there would be a page ffr.com/kbo where all community and gaming aspects of KBO would take place. While on ffr.com/profile the user would be able to select which stats they would like to view, such as FFR stats, KBO stats, or SM stats. All stored on respective databases, and run by respective administrators. This would be, in short, all to consolidate the rhythm scene into a single place. See qqwref's post for another viewpoint.


    The Mobile World
    This is a tough one, as it would require a lot of very specific programming. One thing FFR lacks is the mobile support. You can't play this game very well on a mobile device. This should be tackled, as more and more people are moving into the mobile world. Building FFR, and its supported games, to work on touch screen or button basis should be a high priority! Imagine the thousands of people currently playing Tap Tap Revenge who could be playing FFR instead? (A much better game, with much better song selection!) As well with tablets becoming more and more popular building these games may be easier as the screen space is larger.


    Conclusion
    This only scrapes the surface of what FFR needs in order to survive and regain its strong hold on the rhythm scene. Please review the proposal laid out in this short write-up, and make suggestions and critiques. This cannot take flight without large support from the surrounding communities, as well as our own.

    Thank you,
    Zageron

    Note: Constructive replies are required.
    Last edited by Zageron; 05-9-2011, 01:09 PM. Reason: Revisions, and Clarifications.
  • foilman8805
    smoke wheat hail satin
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Sep 2006
    • 5704

    #2
    Would it be constructive to tell you that you need to review your grammar, sentence structure, choice of words and language mechanics in general?

    ------------------------- Post Merged -------------------------

    Originally posted by Zageron
    This is especially important if FFR wishes to stay unique from the TS (ThirdStyle) way of doing things.
    Additionally, I take umbrage at this remark.
    Last edited by Velocity; 05-9-2011, 03:05 AM.

    Comment

    • stargroup100
      behanjc & me are <3'ers
      FFR Simfile Author
      FFR Music Producer
      • Jul 2006
      • 2051

      #3
      Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

      While I appreciate the effort you put into writing this, there are unfortunately some very basic boundaries that are difficult to cross, making it difficult to achieve what you want.

      For starters, you clearly have the idea that FFR should remain unique (from games such as TS). However, this is problematic. TS is derivative of FFR, being virtually identical to FFR in terms of direct gameplay, with the only difference being song selection, interface, style, and engine. To avoid this is difficult, as you would be breaking away from the features that define FFR. The only chance FFR stands in terms of direct engine and mechanics balance and game quality is to simply revamp the game and improve it constantly. Popularity and other issues more directly related to the input of other people is a different story.

      Another problem is that you wish to replace other rhythm games that are "inferior" (such as Tap Tap). As much as I agree that FFR is better than Tap Tap in almost all respects, it is still very hard to convince people of this fact. The most dramatic change is from DDR to FFR, where the entire game mechanics are changed, and thus bringing forth new styles, new ideas. However, the connotation, no matter how you look at it, goes back to DDR. The arrow noteskin and default upwards scroll has been static since the release of the game, the name is obviously derived, and a significant fraction of the music is reminiscent of the pad rhythm games. People playing FFR can be turned off by the fact that a non-pad rhythm game still tries to be relevant and derivative of a pad game when there is clearly no relation. With the emergence of other mainstream rhythm games, this is especially obvious. How much this actually affects the population of interested players, I don't know, but from my experience of listening to the responses of many different kinds of people, it is a significant amount.

      The most absurd proposal is wanting FFR to be the central rhythm gaming site. In order to be a community that is a central link to a larger one, there must be something that draw all of the players to it. At the moment, FFR has nothing noteworthy that is not found in another game. To want it to be the centralized community is like a random average guy claiming to want to be President. It just can't happen.

      This just touches only on a few (albeit similar) points, but the fact of the matter is that it is probably too difficult to achieve what you want, and the efforts may not be worth it. Some of these concepts are okay, but they are either not effective because they don't address the current issues, or are simply way too ambitious to be practical.
      Last edited by stargroup100; 05-9-2011, 03:44 AM.
      Rhythm Simulation Guide
      Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

      Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

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      • Zageron
        Zageron E. Tazaterra
        FFR Administrator
        • Apr 2007
        • 6592

        #4
        Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

        I seem to have been severely misunderstood and I am sorry for not being more clear in my proposal.

        To clarify:
        I am in no way trying to separate from the derivative rhythm games that have sprouted from FFR. I just happen to have a fairly sound idea that Third Style will have absolutely no interest in joining back up with FFR, as they left this place in shambles. FFR would not change itself, in fact it would remain almost exactly the same, only improve on what works and expand into a more centralized 'rhythm gaming hub' instead of being based solely on FFR The Game.

        FFR [dot] com would be a rhythm gaming central station. Where any and all people interested in rhythm gaming would congregate to, to gain access to any and all affiliated rhythm games. These other rhythm games would absolutely in no way be managed or owned by FFR, and be run by their respective creators and staff. For example if KBO was to affiliate there would be a page ffr.com/kbo, for example, where all community and gaming aspects of KBO would take place. While on ffr.com/profile the user would be able to select which stats they would like to view, such as FFR stats, KBO stats, or SM stats. All stored on respective databases, and run by respective administrators.

        Simply put, FFR is the router and user interface for all of these websites. This would assure high traffic to ALL of the rhythm gaming sites, while concentrating everything on an add free website which is already known to many people.

        Have I clarified what my Community Link intention was?

        Note: That the Community Link is not the only aspect of my proposal. The other ends of this idea are still open to suggestion. Please do not null the whole thing based on one aspect of it. :]
        Last edited by Zageron; 05-9-2011, 04:00 AM.

        Comment

        • qqwref
          stepmania archaeologist
          FFR Simfile Author
          • Aug 2005
          • 4092

          #5
          Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

          Record label is an interesting idea, but I don't think FFR wants to move in the business direction. Plus I have a feeling it would end up overwhelming the free part of the game. I could see a lot of unlockables being related to buying music (much like the old support tokens), people who don't buy music being given fewer FFR-related features, and musicians asking for their files to be removed from the game to try to get more people to buy the music. Nobody really wants these things, but they're the natural progression.


          Now, I dunno what other people are seeing, but the community link idea is a really great one. I've seen a lot of little communities, and each one gets their own little group of people, but there's no common thing to make people want to join with each other. In fact, instead of joining the fragmented communities, we tend to just sit and complain about how the other groups are different. That is not the way forward, as other people have said. It would be awesome to add community stuff to FFR and get people back to this site, not because everyone would love FFR the game itself, but because we've already got so many social networking options. There's not just the huge forum with many totally different sections to hang out in, but also the profiles, at least two different types of chat, various social groups and friends, and so on.

          So if we already have all this stuff, this site is probably the best bet for a centralized one. We could add some FFR logos and stuff to Staiain's wiki, and expand it to include other rhythm game players and achievements. We could add some more databases (like the old FFR.com/sims thing, but with scores), and make some foreign language sections in the forums for the big groups of players from Central/South America and Asia. We could directly support and link to sm-ssc. The whole thing would involve a lot of work and planning, but considering how big socially integrated FFR is and has been, I feel that no other site could pull it off as well.


          The mobile thing is a pretty good idea too. I could definitely see FFR as some kind of mobile app, but I'm not sure how the control scheme would work. Maybe there could be a section with four pads that can be dragged around (for setup purposes) and then hit with fingers? You could have enough room for an arrow keys setup, or spread, or maybe even a dance pad type setup (2468).
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          Comment

          • stargroup100
            behanjc & me are <3'ers
            FFR Simfile Author
            FFR Music Producer
            • Jul 2006
            • 2051

            #6
            Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

            I will read the replies sometime later, bit tired right now.
            Rhythm Simulation Guide
            Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

            Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

            Comment

            • XCV
              has nice tits
              • Nov 2008
              • 744

              #7
              Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

              One thing that bothers me here.

              AdventureQuest recently started running spots on TV. This inevitably led to thousands upon thousands of 8-11 year old kids who watch Nick (and know how to lie about their age) joining the site. (I haven't checked, but I'm fairly sure.) This ruins things for the older people. Given, there probably aren't that many in the example I used, but you get the idea. The kids are just incredibly immature, nothing against them, everyone is at that age. I'm sure a fair few of us have been in Kong chatrooms with some; there are quite a lot running amuck over there. That's fine, that can be put up with. But no one wants that happening over here. In a way, the site going down was a good thing; only the people who had been with it for a while (or those who had just started) actively followed Tass's page, and the forums, and stayed with it till it came back. We lost the 30,000 utter noobs on the server at any given time, and the site morphed into something resembling KBO.

              In short - yes, we need to make money to keep it going, but for the sake of all that's sacred, please don't go overly commercial.

              Comment

              • aperson
                FFR Hall of Fame
                FFR Simfile Author
                • Jul 2003
                • 3431

                #8
                Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

                Originally posted by stargroup100
                The most absurd proposal is wanting FFR to be the central rhythm gaming site. In order to be a community that is a central link to a larger one, there must be something that draw all of the players to it. At the moment, FFR has nothing noteworthy that is not found in another game.
                If only those other people running that other awesome rhythm game would ever get back to me about combining engines and backends .............


                Also you forget that there are several people on FFR that can code things into existence !!

                Comment

                • ScarletSky
                  FFR Veteran
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 1811

                  #9
                  Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

                  Originally posted by qqwref
                  Record label is an interesting idea, but I don't think FFR wants to move in the business direction. Plus I have a feeling it would end up overwhelming the free part of the game. I could see a lot of unlockables being related to buying music (much like the old support tokens), people who don't buy music being given fewer FFR-related features, and musicians asking for their files to be removed from the game to try to get more people to buy the music. Nobody really wants these things, but they're the natural progression.
                  THIS SHIT RIGHT ****ING HERE!!!
                  The day we start being more profit oriented again is the day I quit. I don't mind ads to help pay for the site, donations, etc. But if at any point in time this site changes from being for fun to trying to get a little extra cash in the staff's pockets, it's done. I'll leave again and won't ever come back. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel that way as well.

                  Comment

                  • foilman8805
                    smoke wheat hail satin
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 5704

                    #10
                    Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

                    Well, quite frankly, that's the sole reason why this site went down the tubes in the first place.

                    Comment

                    • Zageron
                      Zageron E. Tazaterra
                      FFR Administrator
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 6592

                      #11
                      Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

                      To clarify the record label:

                      My wording, again, was poor when I was writing my little suggestion. Excuses aside, here is what I actually meant.

                      An actual record label, probably not a good idea. However, why can FFR not be something like Bandcamp? An approved musician uploads their music to FFR, where it can be either downloaded for free or purchased by the users of FFR. This is not something for mainstream, or the crap we had going on before, money making. It is a publicity magnet for aspiring musicians that have their music on FFR. For example: stargroup, sgx, championanwar, and Silvuh.

                      People would then pay for, or get for free depending on what the artist wants, for digital downloads of these files in their respective qualities. This would have no relation to the rhythm games what so ever. No purchases made in the FFR store would translate to any gains in the gaming engines found on the FFR website.

                      As for profiting. I don't know. My original idea was to grab 1 or 2% off of the sale of each album, or song. However, this would require FFR becoming attached to the business side again. (Which isn't a popular idea with users and staff alike.)

                      I will be revising the OP with my clarifications, as well as a few additions from friends. :]

                      @foil, not exactly...

                      Comment

                      • foilman8805
                        smoke wheat hail satin
                        FFR Simfile Author
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 5704

                        #12
                        Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

                        The financials and business aspects weren't the reason why the site itself went down (those were server malfunctions, etc), but the quality of the site and the feeling that this website was "for fun" disappeared when Synthlight and company began searching for deals with record labels and the like.

                        Comment

                        • Zageron
                          Zageron E. Tazaterra
                          FFR Administrator
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 6592

                          #13
                          Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

                          Originally posted by foilman8805
                          The financials and business aspects weren't the reason why the site itself went down (those were server malfunctions, etc), but the quality of the site and the feeling that this website was "for fun" disappeared when Synthlight and company began searching for deals with record labels and the like.
                          Yes. This is true. I have a request foil. Could you please take my idea, and in any possible way you see fit, reconstruct it to suit what you believe would be our best course of action? As well, please comment on the other sections: Mobile and Link.

                          Edit: Please be aware that the OP has changed. New ideas are integrated, and clarifications have been made.
                          Last edited by Zageron; 05-9-2011, 01:09 PM.

                          Comment

                          • rushyrulz
                            Digital Dancing!
                            FFR Simfile Author
                            FFR Music Producer
                            • Feb 2006
                            • 12985

                            #14
                            Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

                            Originally posted by ScarletSky
                            I'm gonna quit if we go back to for-profit tirade
                            Threatening to quit a free game that you don't pay for or contribute to isn't really a huge loss so doing so is your loss only.

                            In short:
                            Record label: qqwref is right, it would probably just end up being a cluster**** of greedy musicians who don't actually give a damn about the game and as a result, songs will be removed up the ying yang for profit.

                            Community Links: This is a good idea for things like staiain's wiki and other FFR-related sites, but since Thirdstyle and KBO aren't reaching out to us, I see no reason to reach out to them. What good is it to link to their sites with no link to FFR on theirs?

                            Mobile: This has been suggested before and it's just not a priority and too much of a long-shot to actually get noticed. FFR is tremendously better than Tap Tap Revenge, but that game was designed to be a mobile app and FFR was not. Making a mobile application would require a completely new design of the game and would require countless hours of coding and design.


                            Comment

                            • SocoNhydro420
                              FFR Veteran
                              • Oct 2008
                              • 915

                              #15
                              Re: Flash Flash Revolution: The Future of

                              I agree to keep the site free to play and stuff. Put a few ads at the bottom of the page to get a tad of money or something

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