What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

[Zyxel]

I wanna take a stab at charting now that I have a decent bit more free time (and I'm somewhat familiar with the tools, however last time I tried charting i was using ddream in like 2015) and I'd love to make something that is playable and enjoyable. However, I don't think I've developed the skillset required to compose a chart worth playing yet. Any tips or advice for a newbie like me?

[xXOpkillerXx]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

What I look for mostly as a judge (in a rough descending order of importance):

- Sync. This is a critical element of charting. You must properly align the notes to the music, which means you have to use correct bpms and offset.

- Consistency. The charting decisions you make throughout the song should be consistent. When you break that consistency, you must have an explicit reason to justify doing so. For example, you chart a buzz noise with 48ths rolls everywhere but one buzz you did a jumptrill. If there is justification from the song like the buzz is different enough or you layer something else for other justifiable reasons, then it's probably fine.

- Representation. The chart should reflect the song. There are often many many ways to achieve this, but some ways are more intuitive than others. You can have a lot of consistency and good sync, but if you charted the intense parts of a song as the easiest section of a chart, usually you'll get confused looks from people.

- Balance. The chart should have a justifiable difficulty curve. While spikes are fine in certain contexts, if you fail to justify the existence of a massive difficulty spike/increase in your chart, chances are you'd probably want to rethink it.

- Originality. A chart can have all of the above but still be super bland. Sometimes there's nothing wrong with it if the representation aspect is already pretty good given the song, but if people deem it to have a fair amount of leeway to add variety without sacrificing other important aspects, they may suggest it.


I hope this helps you and good luck with your first charts! Keep in mind that 99% of people are pretty bad the first time around, and then it gets better once they get a feel for the techniques used and what people like to play. ^^

[Rapta]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

Not everyone will like your charts, and that's okay. It's the same for every step file artist. Don't let criticism get to you.

[ToonE156]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

I am monkey booty cheeks at explaining things so please bear with me here

- Try not to copy specific patterns but more of structure.

I used to make the mistake of directly copying patterns back when I used to chart ITG. I would see a cool pattern in a vid of another chart and then try to copy that exact pattern in one of my own charts with almost no regard to how it fits within the chart, the differing BPMs between songs, difficulty spikes, etc. An example of this is bracketing. When I first found out about them I would put them whenever I could in the chart even if a normal jump would've worked just fine. Nothing wrong with taking inspiration from another chart but its important to understand why said pattern works in a chart instead of just putting them everywhere in your chart.

- PLAYTEST PLAYTEST PLAYTEST

Pretty obvious one but playtesting a chart can point out the flaws in a specific section of a chart that looked completely fine in ArrowVortex or whatever editor you use.


If you want tips for what makes a good chart, refer to what OPKiller just posted above me. I was just saying tips that I learned about the actual charting process

[Zyxel]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

A lot of really solid advice, I appreciate y'all.

Is there somewhere I can get feedback / critique and bounce my ideas back? (I imagine probably the FFR discord but I'm not too entirely sure how everything works yet)

[ToonE156]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

A lot of really solid advice, I appreciate y'all.

Is there somewhere I can get feedback / critique and bounce my ideas back? (I imagine probably the FFR discord but I'm not too entirely sure how everything works yet)

The #simfiles channel in the FFR discord (just post a vid or the zip of the file and ask for feedback) or the #charting channel in the Secondary Etterna Discord (my preferred method)

another way to get feedback would be to submit to a pack but its not a recommended way for super beginners.

[storn42]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

I wanna take a stab at charting now that I have a decent bit more free time (and I'm somewhat familiar with the tools, however last time I tried charting i was using ddream in like 2015) and I'd love to make something that is playable and enjoyable. However, I don't think I've developed the skillset required to compose a chart worth playing yet. Any tips or advice for a newbie like me?

A good chart is simply one thats fun! OP listed the main factors that go into how we judge a chart, though you can have the most balanced, consistent, representation of a song, but if it isn't fun its not a good chart. It can be highly subjective what constitutes "fun" but its a game after all, thats the end goal.

The last tip if will leave you is that your charts will suck. It can take a long time and a lot of effort to get to the point where you can consistently make good charts. Its okay to make bad files and you will look back at your charts later and cringe at how trash they are. Be proud of your charts not because they are good, but because you made them, and that alone isn't an easy feat.

[Wiosna]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

whether i made it or not. if i made it then it's bad

edit: Serious response is that you won't be able to get a practicable answer from anyone. While Opkiller's post listing some elements of a "good chart" are definitely elements that constitute a chart that people would perceive to be good, it's difficult to answer more concrete questions like "how many unique elements must a chart have to be original", "what is the minimum level of consistency that is acceptable in a chart", or "how much of a difficulty spike is an unacceptable one". Charting has mostly been explored as less of a rigorous science with controlled variables and more of an improvisational affair (sometimes with some structure), so there is a lot of intersubjectivity (objectivity doesn't exist in this case) involved in charting and you won't get a clear answer to most concrete questions about assessing a chart.

I think it's still good to consult channels like #simfiles or some judges if you want to get feedback on your chart, but do understand that even if the person assessing your chart is a seasoned charter, they will assess the specific convictions about charting and how it should be done. Some charters will clarify about what you're trying to do exactly because they realise that charting is a very subjective affair, but there's only so much bias that one can mitigate from assessment. All of this isn't necessarily to say that you should avoid hearing from others about what they have to say about your charts and what they think a "good chart" is, but it is to curb your expectations about how applicable one's answers will be to your question, especially when you enter more concrete areas. One person's answers can and will conflict with others. This applies to players, charters, and people who are appointed as FFR judges.

There's also the discussion of distinguishing between "fun" and "good", what are some intersubjective elements of "fun", and whether there is any functional difference between good/fun for most groups of people approaching a chart (whether it'd be playing or looking at it in the editor), but that's a different can of worms altogether.

[gold stinger]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

Not everyone will like your charts, and that's okay. It's the same for every step file artist. Don't let criticism get to you.

This rings extremely hard. There is not a single person whom is be-all end-all the final say for how a Stepchart should be charted. Most judges on the judge team will have a general idea on what players will like and dislike and you may even get the odd judgment on a file that is an exception to that. It doesn't mean what or how you stepped it is inherently wrong. It could mean that a particular category that Opkiller listed didn't resonate with that individual, or that there are competing songs and interests already in-game, or any number of reasons both with and without bias.


If you're looking for input on how to get into 'charting' in general, make your own pack. When I first started making simfiles, people absolutely hated what I put out. Off-sync, pony music-related, white noise garbage. But, I made what was fun for me to make, put it in a pack and released it. Regardless of whether or not people actually play your content, it will help you create landmarks and checkpoints where you can validate the quality of your own work, and see your own progression of how you improved in charting over time. It also helps bring into view some of the things that you did incorrectly in earlier charts and what worked well in more recent charts when you have multiple data points of your own work to compare it against.

[XelNya]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

As someone who doesn't use a lot of more, for lack of better words "traditional" methods, the best advice I feel qualified to give is that you should make a synced piece that you think represents the music. If it helps, set the rules on what layers with what, and what you do, and don't care about representing.

It won't make fine china, but you'll get in a good ball park of consistency by doing that. The best of the best fucked up somewhere, you will as well.

Also, I think trying to make a pack is solid, but subbing to a few might be a bit better initially if you asked me personally.

[_choof]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

opkiller's post is good for an idea of what makes a competent chart
your charts are good when they're not just playable, but fun to play

[hi19hi19]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

By asking this question and reflecting on the answers you're doing better than most already.

[loftyb]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

When the chart you are charting makes you smile

[Lights]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

When the chart you are charting makes you smile

I like this answer a lot.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: What Constitutes a "Good Chart"?

If you go back to play your file after some time then you know you made a chart you enjoy and tbh that matters a lot more than other people's opinions