Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

[Knoobish]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

I wonder if some sort of FFR-wide poll could be done, like on the entry page, that would ask how many people have KB's that can register 4 keystrokes at the same time. I think that at this point the amount of people who are not able to hit quads is grossly overestimated.

Just throwing that out there.

[infinity.]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

I wonder if some sort of FFR-wide poll could be done, like on the entry page, that would ask how many people have KB's that can register 4 keystrokes at the same time. I think that at this point the amount of people who are not able to hit quads is grossly overestimated.

Just throwing that out there.

seconded.


it's impossible to argue with stargroup, he only listens to himself.

[jimerax]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

get over it and allow hands/quads in easy files

This game isn't only for people who love overlayered files, get over it.
For most of non-skilled general players, hands are ruining factors rather than fun factors.

A few exceptions could exist, though.

[stargroup100]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

This game isn't only for people who love overlayered files, get over it.
For most of non-skilled general players, hands are ruining factors rather than fun factors.

A few exceptions could exist, though.

Hands/quads can be used for more than just layering you know.
Hands can ruin many factors yes, but if they are used effectively they can be extremely fun as well. Stop being closed-minded.

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

your logic in replying to my earlier post is highly flawed, but as someone else pointed out... no point in wasting my time arguing or countering your statements.

i'll just keep it simple... hands/quads in FMO/FGO files only. be happy they're being allowed in ANY files at all.

[stargroup100]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

How is my logic flawed? It's simple and straightforward. YOU even made a few statements that indirectly support this idea.

I wonder if some sort of FFR-wide poll could be done, like on the entry page, that would ask how many people have KB's that can register 4 keystrokes at the same time. I think that at this point the amount of people who are not able to hit quads is grossly overestimated.

Just throwing that out there.

Pros/Support
- Expanded creativity
- More fun factor
- People CAN register the keys

Cons/Disagree
- Limited to spread playing style, but

People have learned how to hit hands on pad, they can figure out how to do it index as well.

so this point is ineffective.
- Will lead to overlayering. (also ineffective because they can be used for more than layering)
- Everyone cannot play every file (many people still cannot play many files. this idea could be considered ineffective since this idea is almost impossible by now)

Outlined everything. Anything I missed?

edit: ok both me AND behan approve of the idea. now you guys can see I'm not f*cking nuts and I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT

[behanjc]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

K here's my thoughts. First of all, quit with the keyboard not registering crap.
Firstly, there is in-game key remapping, and there are very few keyboards that have NO setups that will work. Secondly, the game already allows things that are extremely close to, and that the average player would hit as a hand. Even in early files such as Evil Approaches. My bet is the average player hits that one part as if the file contained hands.

Which leads to the second point. If you allow 48th notes into jumps and similar patterns, what's the difference with hands?

Next, index is a style that one chooses to play. For the average indexer, even slow jumpstream is very difficult, but people still find a way to do it, or avoid those files without complaints. On the contrary, indexers have a big advantage on left trills and jacks that spread players struggle on. Evidently, many people try to avoid the use of many annoying spread patterns, but files with left trills and jacks certainly still make it into the game. Hands should be the same. Adding hands is just another phase that will cause people to either rant, change styles, or most likely continue playing as normal.

All of this must be taken from the average players perspective. Most people posting here are of above average skill, and are in fact the minority. The average player can't even come close to FCing VD songs. Why don't we just not add any songs that are VD or above? Obviously because people like challenges, which hands would bring. So adding hands would not make much of a difference to the majority of players who wouldn't be able to do well on the file anyway, yet still play because of the challenge factor. Of course there will be mixed reactions to start, but it's just a new phase we have to get used to.

[jimerax]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

So did you guys ever heard of people's voices when Blooddrunk was released, or P4U v1 back back in 2003? Aside from the hand usage in those files, there were a lot more people who complained about hands than people who liked them. Being fun for file creators/skilled people doesn't mean hands are fun for majority of people as well.

a few of C/VC files could support hands if they are used really carefully IMO though, so that's why I said there're a few exceptions (or something like ding dong song).

[stargroup100]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

gj ignoring what behan said

edit: jimerax, you do realize those negative comments were before the public believed triples and quads could be used effectively. when blue rose was released everyone loved it, no complaints at all

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

I use hands to do "pseudo-hands" (quads for pseudo-quads too, like Adventures of Lolo, second half, 12th note with 8th jumps) all the time, as behanjc points out. As stargroup100 states, hands are useful. There is no reason why the optimum quality of simfile precision should be regulated by anything other than the limits of the game function (ie freezes aren't put in because the game won't register them). If hands make more accurate simfiles in accordance to the song, I don't see why hands should be restricted to FMO FGO simfiles. What reason (besides the key registering) do players have in complaining about hands without complaining about other step patterns? As behanjc states, hands are no more than another step pattern, which can bring about more (or less imo) difficulty in comparison to trills and jacks. If they're complaining, there has to be a reason. Keymapping is solved. No more reasons exist imo, except for "ITZ TOO HARD ZOMG"

Kotarouchan can do hands fine (index). She told me all she has to do is play them real fast, like rolls. It's not impossible, or so she says. (Sorry for mentioning your name here, Kota =/ I don't play index...)

I fully support the utilization of hands. I fully support the opinions of behanjc and stargroup100.

Also, my stepfiles have many hands and quads regardless of difficulty level.

[jimerax]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

Well you guys can submit any files with hands, they're just rejected if hands don't fit the music very well or don't match the difficulty of the files.

examples for good hands placement in general.

- placed on an intense part with 3+ instruments.
- placed for accents like orchestra-hits or symbals along with other instruments.
- possibly it should be isolated from other rhythms, don't make handstreams or something.
- don't put them randomly, they should be used consistently (of course, never overuse).

ps. quads will give the file a lot more probability of rejection than triples.

[Knoobish]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

I did say grossly overestimated btw... as in, I feel like there's way too many people saying their KB's won't register hands/quads when in reality there's probably less than 1% of the players who have this issue. I think some people may have misinterpreted that.

Frankly, I agree with stargroup. There is really no reason it would be too hard to put in some really easily placed hands/quads in lower than FMO/FGO files if they fit the music.

[omgitznpv]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

edit: ok both me AND behan approve of the idea. now you guys can see I'm not f*cking nuts and I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT

i approved of it too u no... :<:<:<:<



with jx's statement, are we now allowed to submit any files with hands or what

[jimerax]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

I won't allow hands on something like VD or easier files. In C-VC files hands will still most likely be rejected unless they are excellent, but it basically depends on Tass.



stargroup "WOW I made an awesome beginner's file with only quads.. this is so unique and creative!!!"



















meh

just kidding.

[omgitznpv]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

tasselfoot "WOW I made an awesome beginner's file with only quads.. this is so unique and creative!!!"




































meh

not kidding