Children's Rights?

[~kitty~]

I know I'm not a child anymore, but I am also not the youngest in my family.

Article 14 (Freedom of thought, conscience and religion): Children have the right to think and believe what they want and to practise their religion, as long as they are not stopping other people from enjoying their rights. (http://www.unicef.org/crc/files/Rights_overview.pdf)

According to this article, wouldn't it mean that telling a child they have to attend church, religious gatherings, or anything relating the religious practices is illegal? I want to know some opinions on the extent to which a parent can make a child do and think what they want. When does it stop another person from enjoying their rights?

[Without A Contraceptive]

Re: Children's Rights?

sorry mayne/anyone that believes american law should enable kids (anyone who isn't completely financially independent regardless of age) to disobey their parents is just plain wrong

parents have the right to force a kid to go to church, they can force their beliefs on their children, and make them do anything. if you aren't financially independent you do not have any right to disobey your parents. in fact, id go as far as to say that you do not have any rights at all

[Emithith]

Re: Children's Rights?

sorry mayne/anyone that believes american law should enable kids (anyone who isn't completely financially independent regardless of age) to disobey their parents is just plain wrong

parents have the right to force a kid to go to church, they can force their beliefs on their children, and make them do anything. if you aren't financially independent you do not have any right to disobey your parents. in fact, id go as far as to say that you do not have any rights at all

Are you saying that they have no right to complain if someone is sexually/emotionally/physically abusing them? Are you saying that the caregiver has every right to strike a child when it is more convenient for them, because they can't handle one more thing?

You have a right to believe what you want, but in my books, (and alot of others, too) believe that's extremely wrong.

I believe that you shouldn't force your religion on others, because that's not really being good to your religion, no? Take the Christians (Or the Catholics? I can't remember who was trying to convert), they tried to convert the Pagans, and they did succeed, but now they're forming little circles, and they feel just a little resentful. :\

Just sayin', everyone-- even children-- has a right to their beliefs about god. Whether they believe he even exists, or if there is more than one, or what ever.

[cry4eternity]

Re: Children's Rights?

Unfortunately, I think WAC is right. It seems you only took the first line of the article and drew a premature conclusion.

The Convention respects the rights and duties of parents in providing religious and moral guidance to their children. Religious groups around the world have expressed support for the Convention, which indicates that it in no way prevents parents from bringing their children up within a religious tradition.

Here it looks like it says that parents can still do whatever the crap they want, within the law (no abuse, must provide food and shelter, etc.).

At the same time, the Convention recognizes that as children mature and are able to form their own views, some may question certain religious practices or cultural traditions. The Convention supports children's right to examine their beliefs, but it also states that their right to express their beliefs implies respect for the rights and freedoms of others.

As children mature and can form their own views, they are allowed to question religious practices and cultural traditions [but parents are still allowed to make them participate]. The only thing that appears to be prohibited is punishing children who question or shy away from the religion or other cultural practices in which they were brought up, as well as punishing them for expressing their new views. That's what I got from this.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Children's Rights?

In some contexts church and religion are directly abusive and children shouldn't be exposed to them. Make the category as broad as "religious practices" frankly ought to yield all sorts of illegalities. Stuff like this shouldn't just be illegal, the perpetrators should be lined up against a wall.

[MopeyJoe]

Re: Children's Rights?

Stuff like this

The moment I saw "God didn't intend this" proved my thoughts correct - Just because someone has a different sexuality makes certain people think they are more evil than Hitler ever was.

By the way, defenders of the bible, you should know that your bible talks about owning and beating slaves.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Also, the beating...

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

And don't say "Oh, well that was in the old book. It doesn't say that in the new book," because they just calls slaves "servants" in the newer books....

But that was just a rant. WAC, what you said basically told me that you think children are slaves and should be treated as such.

[ChesterDalton]

Re: Children's Rights?

All parents pass on their values to their children. If you had information that you honestly belived could save your childs life would you tell them or let them find that information out by themselves when it could be too late.

[MopeyJoe]

Re: Children's Rights?

All parents pass on their values to their children. If you had information that you honestly belived could save your childs life would you tell them or let them find that information out by themselves when it could be too late.

There are some things that parents should tell children, while there are some things that parents should just keep quiet about.

Just because a parent can pass their values to their children, doesn't mean they should.

[Cavernio]

Re: Children's Rights?

No, the article only says that children are allowed to express to their parents their reasons for not wanting to go to church, and that the parents must listen, not say that their parents cannot force them to go.

[Without A Contraceptive]

Re: Children's Rights?

But that was just a rant. WAC, what you said basically told me that you think children are slaves and should be treated as such.

ya because that is basically what you and all other "children" are.

i've been lucky enough to have rational parents who are open-minded and allow me (and encourage me) to develop my own thoughts, opinions, etc.. however, if you are unfortunate enough to have parents who force you to attend church and other things like that, too bad. you don't really have a choice in the matter.

[Izzy]

Re: Children's Rights?

I've had this discussion with someone before and I believe that forcing religion upon children impedes on their freedom of religion. You can believe whatever you want, but forcing it upon your kids should be illegal.

[MopeyJoe]

Re: Children's Rights?

ya because that is basically what you and all other "children" are.

i've been lucky enough to have rational parents who are open-minded and allow me (and encourage me) to develop my own thoughts, opinions, etc.. however, if you are unfortunate enough to have parents who force you to attend church and other things like that, too bad. you don't really have a choice in the matter.

Oh ok, so when I have children and they decide not to do something I told them to do, I will take a metal rod and beat them with it until they agree to do it.

No, you don't do that. That's what you do to slaves, I've never seen a 7 year-old be told to make dinner for their parents or clean the dishes afterward or else they will get beat.

[~kitty~]

Re: Children's Rights?

No, the article only says that children are allowed to express to their parents their reasons for not wanting to go to church, and that the parents must listen, not say that their parents cannot force them to go.

" Moreover, the Convention recognizes that the level of a child’s
participation in decisions must be appropriate to the child's level of maturity. Children's ability to form and
express their opinions develops with age and most adults will naturally give the views of teenagers
greater weight than those of a preschooler, whether in family, legal or administrative decision"

[Cavernio]

Re: Children's Rights?

Right kitty.

"Just because a parent can pass their values to their children, doesn't mean they should."

A parent will pass their values to their child whether they want to or not, just as society will. That's just how things work. Regardless though, if your values are actually values, you will want your child to have them as well, and unless your values go against societal values, then there's no reason to not teach your kid your own values.

[MopeyJoe]

Re: Children's Rights?

where did i ever say anything about parents beating their kids mopey?

You didn't say parents beat their children but...

in fact, id go as far as to say that you do not have any rights at all

You are basically saying, parents have the right to beat their children because children have no rights, and parents just choose not to beat their kids.

Oh yes, and I do listen to my mom all the time. She never forces her religion on me (well, she does partially, but I don't like Christianity so I don't listen to her then), and I just do what she wants me to do around the house, and my life is just fine.

And WAC, what if a parent told their kid to go do drugs, mug people, and rape women? Would you think it would be bad if a child said no to their parents then?