What are we?

[ryanisadouche]

This is just something thats been bugging me lately, and I can't seem to wrap my head around it. The question is what are we?

I'll start by explaining my thought process as best as I can. Imagine that the top scientists in the world were gathered with unlimited funds and resources to build a human. Lets say they built some kind of skeleton, exactly like a humans, and then molded something flesh-like around it. They then performed organ transplants and gave their "human" all the key components to life. Then, by mechanical means, they got the heart to start pumping blood, forced oxygen into the lungs, etc. My point is, even if they made an exact replica of a human being, and brought all the organs to life to support the body, it would still be a hollow shell; there would be nothing inside capable of thinking or making decisions.

So what I'm getting at here once again is, what are we? We use our brains to think, make decisions, and store memories, but we are clearly not alive because of our brains. I'm not a religious person, but the more i think of it, the more it makes sense that we are some sort of spiritual conscious inside a purely physical body. Or is there some simple carbon-related scientific answer to my confusion? I hope you guys understand what i'm trying to get at, I'd love to hear your opinions.

[Raveren]

Re: What are we?

It's the "carbon-related" answer.

Though I'm sure you didn't mean it like this, but our bodies are much more complex then just using any material for skeleton or flesh. I haven't taken enough Biology to be able to explain it well enough, but our utilizes and has a function for every particle in the body, from the pH+ to glucose to whatever else. Every molecule has a role and all the roles are very dependant and intertwined with the other molecules, and changing even the slightest composition of matter would offset the entire system and have to be completely rethought. The only manner of recreating the human body is to create an exact replica of chemical composition of matter, the most difficult part of this being the recreation of DNA, which I would imagine would take centuries, if not millenia to recreate.

[tupacodaman]

Re: What are we?

yea the brain's insanely complex. it really is the reason we are CONSCIOUS, not alive. I know you said we are not "alive" because of our brains, but I think you meant conscious. Your hypothetical situation is like the philosopher's zombie: a creature that is like a human in every way minus a brain. Lots of fun (read: gay) questions arise, such as how you distinguish between these zombies and humans. In the end, though, there is no reason to believe in a "soul", some non-physical entity, if only because of the complete rejection of Cartesian dualism in which this non-physical soul can somehow exert a force that acts on a physical force. Sometimes it seems easier to just believe in this soul thing and say that's what makes us human, but in reality, our brain is 100% responsible.

so yea, there's no "simple" carbon-based answer. there are countless numbers of reactions and mechanisms in the brain that we still don't fully understand. but in the end, it's all there. the brain makes us conscious and makes us "human" and therefore different from any other animal on this planet

[devonin]

Re: What are we?

I just deny that the world's top scientists even with virtually unlimited resources could actually duplicate a grown human in that fashion. We can already create as many new humans as we want, and they work perfectly fine, so I don't see what you are trying to ask.

[Reach]

Re: What are we?

So what I'm getting at here once again is, what are we? We use our brains to think, make decisions, and store memories, but we are clearly not alive because of our brains.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. We are conscious because of our brains, so it is what gives us the ability to perceive ourselves as alive. It determines our personality, and all actions we take are an outward manifestation of what is happening inside of our brain. Every thought, perception, etc is made possible because our very complex brains are able to take information they pick up from our sensory systems and process it in order to create the reality we perceive. I don't see any necessity for a 'spiritual conscious'; it doesn't explain anything.

[makdaddy]

Re: What are we?

If you took a brain, and put it in another shell and hooked it up with all the blood vessels and necessary organs, would it behave like a human, or something else?

I believe that's what he's trying to say

What are we exactly, is it just our brain that makes us what we are or is there more to it?

[tupacodaman]

Re: What are we?

well if you put our brain into another animal I think it would basically be like trying to play a wii game on an NES. wii games aren't programmed for the oldschool NES controller and would just be wtfbbqpwnd. if our brain is in a frog's brain, it wouldn't know wtf to do with that super long tongue, for one, amongst other things. our brain would only function in a human body. don't think one person's brain would work that well in another person's either. it should work, but not well at all. the way neurons are programmed in, say, a basketball player's body would not be the same as the neuron programmation in a professional pianist. while the bballer's brain should work in the pro pianist's body in the terms of basic functioning (breathing, eating, walking), in terms of the more complex functions such as playing the piano and shooting a ball accurately, not so much.

[Reach]

Re: What are we?

If you took a brain, and put it in another shell and hooked it up with all the blood vessels and necessary organs, would it behave like a human, or something else?

I believe that's what he's trying to say

What are we exactly, is it just our brain that makes us what we are or is there more to it?

If you took the *entire* nervous system and hooked it up, then yes, it would behave exactly like a human being. Good luck with this though. The brain by itself isn't capable of doing too much...the spine and all the corresponding nerves would be necessary for it to function properly. I'm also going on the assumption that all of the necessary biochemical functions of a normal human are intact.

So yes, our brain makes us who we are. You can demonstrate this very easily actually by seeing how easy it is to destroy/change someone's personality completely or specific parts of it by damaging certain sections of the brain. Not that anyone should do this purposely but accidents happen all the time ^^;

[makdaddy]

Re: What are we?

oh yeah like a lobotomy, doing things like that to the brain can alter personality totally, I see what you mean

[UserNameGoesHere]

Re: What are we?

Here's a thought.

Suppose your body was dying yet you lived in the future at some point where great technology exists such that we have never seen in the present day.

Slowly, your body parts are replaced with artificial parts (machine parts, prosthetics, artificially-grown organic parts, etc...)

This works for a while but eventually your brain starts to die as well so it too is hooked up with additional devices. At first they merely enhance your own mental abilities and soon you learn to think using them.

Over time more and more of your human brain is replaced with such equipment, all the while you storing more and more of yourself in the equipment until soon nothing is left of your original body, yet you are still "alive" and can think and can move your entirely "new" body.

I don't know if the above scenario can or will happen or not.

So, are you your body or do you merely control it? Should you lose a body part due to any nonfatal reason, you then would conclude it was no longer a part of you would you not? And do you decide how to allocate various minerals and vitamins throughout your body and how your cells grow and etc or does it just seem to happen on its own? Surely you are in great control of the higher processes of your body but the lower processes seem to work on their own. Would you say these lower processes are also the essense of you or would you say they are something else? After all, should you lose any such pieces nonfatally, you will continue to exist. You would not consider yourself to be lesser in mind, although you would be in body.