Absolute Truth?

[devonin]

Re: Absolute Truth?

So would you say there are not any absolutes?

Whether I'd say there were or not doesn't signify in my post. All I was doing was pointing out that you didn't provide a sufficient body of evidence to support your own position, and explain why.

I'm guessing the context of the use is more towards #2. At the end of the day if you have one thing and then you have another one thing and you put them next to each other you have two things. Clearly I am dealing with some seasoned philosophy students in this forum, who are over my head so to speak.

Right, since the statement is true in all cases ("It will either rain tomorrow or not rain tomorrow" is absolutely true) tautological statements can be "proof" that absolute truth exists, but only in a really superficial and in my opinion largely meaningless way. You're just using language to manufacture a "truth" but one that has no inherent value.

And yeah, I'm about 2 months shy of my BA in History and Philosophy, but I don't think it's a matter of someone being over someone else's head. We're all fine to explain things for each other as needed, so discussion can continue.

[Laharl]

Re: Absolute Truth?

I think all Philosophy degrees should be BS degrees.

Anyway:

I'm not entirely sure of what type of Absolutes we're talking about. Are we talking morals? Right and wrong? Or are we talking objects?

I'm not sure we as humans could ever define an absolute moral. There's too much subjectivity involved for there to be one definite truth in regards to morality. If we're talking knowledge, then we know some absolutes. We know that water boils at 100 degrees C and freezes at 0 degrees C. (If you want to argue there's cases where that's not the truth, I suppose we could break out the math for how to determine boiling point dependent on height above sea level, amount of sediments in the water, etc., but my point is still the same: we can determine boiling point without fail and it doesn't change from the formula.)

tl;dr define "absolute truth"

[devonin]

Re: Absolute Truth?

We know that water boils at 100 degrees C and freezes at 0 degrees C. (If you want to argue there's cases where that's not the truth, I suppose we could break out the math for how to determine boiling point dependent on height above sea level, amount of sediments in the water, etc., but my point is still the same: we can determine boiling point without fail and it doesn't change from the formula.)

On Earth. Thus, not actually provably absolute as stated. For all we know, on some other distant planets, the way it works is entirely different. Thus the relative impossibility of ever concluding non-tautological truths.

[indigo23]

Re: Absolute Truth?

"There is no truth
there is only you and what you make the truth."

---Bright Eyes, Don't Know When But A Day Is Gonna Come

[Laharl]

Re: Absolute Truth?

On Earth. Thus, not actually provably absolute as stated. For all we know, on some other distant planets, the way it works is entirely different. Thus the relative impossibility of ever concluding non-tautological truths.

Well, no. It'd still boil the same. You'd probably have to add in a different constant for gravity, but the fact is water is water is water, and H2O will always have a physical change dependant on tempurature, regardless of where it is in the universe. It's the nature of elements.

Two hydrogen atoms bonded with an oxygen atom cannot be somehow miraculously different on another world. If water were somehow different on another world, it wouldn't consist of the same matter, and therefore wouldn't be water.

Now that I think about it, what I'm saying boils down to Matter is an absolute truth. It simply is. It can be destroyed, sure, but the manner in which it can be destroyed has been discovered and is an absolute in and of itself.

[WillTalbot]

Re: Absolute Truth?

Oh yeah, this one night i was up till 2 o clock trying to get some sleep but i had this topic stuck in my head again. I've come to believe that there are absolute truths because saying that there aren't any would be considered one, which sort of defeats the purpose. One of my biggest setbacks in this topic was that i ALWAYS believed that anything was possible for example infinite intelect or speed or whatever you can possible imagine, i now know that not to be true because if anything were possible than there being no absolute truths would be possible but then that would be considered an absolute truth.

I remember back a few months ago reading something about how if there are absolute truths, then there must be creators of them. Says who? There could be a set of absolute truths for our universe of galaxy or whatever the case may be without cause or purpose. I'm not entirely beliving in that i think a creator could be possible or a "god", infact i think its likely ... correct me if im wrong but i think atoms started everything including the big bang etc. and i remember reading that only 4 atoms are needed to create all of the other ones ... idk im not too fluent in biology but what im saying is, if atoms came from nothing, than absolute truths could have too. Id imagine that if not anythinng were possible, then a god would not have all the hype that he does like knowing everything, that would mean that there is fate and it would sadden me to realize that all of my actions, including typing this were previously set.

Its difficult to imagine absolute truths without reason, without someone to have a purpose for them but i guess its possible. Like gravity being force or something can't be divided by zero. There might be a reason for them with a creator behind it, or just ... there. I don't know about you but i don't like the sound of that thought, everything being completely random just out of nothingness. Matter and abstract ideas being set beyond space and time, just always there and always will be. Id personally rather believe in a creator or a higher being with intentions beyond our comprehension, but I'd also rather not give my hopes up and waste valuable time spent on earth to follow something i only believe and not know. Sometimes i wish things were just more clear so i could know my purpose, or create one.

[jebby3223]

Re: Absolute Truth?

Personal opinion: absolute truth exists. I'm going to try not to shove religion into this, so bare with me. IF ABSOLUTE TRUTH DIDN'T EXIST, then there would be no moral standpoints. People could make rules, but there would be no background for the rules to make sense. Most will agree with stealing and murdering is wrong. If this isn't absolute, then what would be wrong with doing these? Another point is that maybe some things are absolute and some aren't. If this were so, then what would define the line? What could say, "Well, that may be absolute, but this sure isn't?" Either everything is absolute or nothing is absolute. I don't see a way that nothing could, so I'm sticking to my standpoint in saying that absolute truth is the only truth that exists.