Easter's Incontinuity.

[Vishnal]

Discuss.

My theory: Easter should have a set day to fall on every year.

Reason 1: Did Jesus really resurrect on ALL those days within the ranges of dates?

Reason 2: It's hard to plan if there's such a large range within which Easter may fall.

Reason 3: It's confusing to keep switching it all up.

More to come... any thoughts?

[Wlfwnd91]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

I would consult my bible if it weren't packed in boxes, but my theory is there may possibly be somewhere in the bible that states that Jesus rose on the sabbath day? And since Sunday is considered the day of Sabbath and rest, since dates change days each year then each year we wouldn't be celebrating the true day on which he resurrected. That's my theory, I THINK I remember reading something along those lines in the bible, but at the moment I can't be sure. I just think that people wanted to celebrate the resurrection on the day of sabbath.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

Vishnal, we know the exact dates on which Easter will fall every year until the end of time, really.

Nobody sits around and says, "Hmm, let's have Easter two weeks earlier this year."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter#Date_of_Easter

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[devonin]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

Well, presumably he was saying less "People shoudln't randomly pick the day" and more saying "instead of "Easter falls on the first Sunday following the first ecclesiastical full moon that occurs on or after March 21"" it should be "Easter falls on April 7th"

The problem of course, and the reason why it is a movable feast day, is that since both the gregorian and julian calendars have inconsistantly mapping days of the week (That is, Date X will be on a different day of the week each year) picking one singular date would be impossible for easter because easter as a holiday is made up of Good Friday, Holy Saturday, Easter Sunday, and Easter Monday, so it -has- to fall over a weekend to make any sense.

[Vishnal]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

Well, presumably he was saying less "People shoudln't randomly pick the day" and more saying "instead of "Easter falls on the first Sunday following the first ecclesiastical full moon that occurs on or after March 21"" it should be "Easter falls on April 7th"

The problem of course, and the reason why it is a movable feast day, is that since both the gregorian and julian calendars have inconsistantly mapping days of the week (That is, Date X will be on a different day of the week each year) picking one singular date would be impossible for easter because easter as a holiday is made up of Good Friday, Holy Saturday, Easter Sunday, and Easter Monday, so it -has- to fall over a weekend to make any sense.

I was saying neither. I know that to be a true holiday of Easter, it would require being on a Sunday. It's just that I don't see why we base it solely off of the full moon after a certain date. I'm saying, "What about making it a set Sunday in April, say, the 2nd Sunday of April, or even the final Sunday of March?"

Guido: Really? Wow, astronomers these days... anyhow, the point is not to argue about it, it's simply to state that I find it disturbing how nearly all holidays have a "set in stone" day to fall upon (i.e. Thanksgiving on the fourth Thursday of November, etc.). Yet somehow Easter is sometimes in March, other times in April; I just find it so confusing.

~Vish~

[devonin]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

The religious calendar is actually very often like that, based on the lunar rather than solar year. Probably has as much to do with trying to keep in line with existing pagan festivals and ceremonies during the early years of the church as it does any other reason.

[devonin]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

It's not a very complicated discussion:

When Christianity was looking to become more widespread, and aiming at conversion of non-worshippers, it was much easier to image their own festivals and rituals after existing ones, than to try and forcibly make others completely give over their own beliefs.

It's much easier to say "The birth you're celebrating in this festival also happens to be the RE-birth of our lord, isn't that wonderful?" than it is to say "You've got it all wrong, you should just abandon your beliefs and follow ours instead."

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

What's wrong with associating pagan symbols with a Christian holiday? We're not worshipping the Easter Bunny or anything.

The day is about Jesus' resurrection while the bunnies are just cute.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[devonin]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

Well, being not a practicing Christian, I've been an apostate far too long to be a heretic, but I hardly think how pointing out that:

Christ's ressurection coincides with pagan fertility rites as well as the death and ressurection of the greek diety Attis

Christmas coincides with the pagan Yule ritual

God is rendered as resembling Jupiter/Zeus

Halos didn't start appearing in the mythology until after Sun-God worshipping Romans converted

The sacrament of communion and drinking of wine are almost word for word a ritual of the roman cult-diety Mithras

Is anything other than simple observances of the historical records.
The gospel of Matthew (As well as every other book of the New Testament) was not the gospel of Christ it was the remembered, well after the fact, retelling of stories by people who were with Christ. People who were, at the time, the central leaders of a new faith struggling to find worshipers, and escape widespread persecution.

Edit: Further, that section of the gospel of Matthew (With the running 'as the hypocrites do' motif) was talking about why it is frowned upon to make a big show of your religion, to go out in public and pray in the open so that everyone can see you and think "oh what a devout man you are" and why it is better to practice in private, on your own, so that only you and God know the truth of your devoutness. What it -isn't- is a specific condemnation of having any of your rituals, ceremonies and observances resmeble those of other faiths. Further, "So, do not make yourselves like them" can't mean "Like the Jews" since Christ was a Jew his entire life, from his birth thorugh his life and death. "Them" in this case are the people who make a big elaborate show of their religiosity.

[devonin]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

Except my whole point was not that outside influences were regarded as somehow inferior and not used, I was instead pointing to multiple cases where the outside influence was almost exactly copied, and adapted to suit their own ends...you haven't actually addressed any of my points here. It's obvious to me that Christianity co-opted many pre-existing rituals, ceremonies and concepts in the formation of its own mythology.

[devonin]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

And yet they were. Or is it all one big unfortunate coincidence that virtually every single christian rite, symbol and ceremony can be -directly- linked to an existing rite, symbol and ceremony held by the people the christians were attempting to convert at the time?

[devonin]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

Er...I'm talking right from the outset -as- the traditions were being established.

I don't mean "there were these original unique christian traditions, and some idiot changed to to match up with other pagain rites" I mean they were -formed- that way. Based off of, not eventually changed to.

[devonin]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

Please provide some examples if you have any.

I provided several examples in my first post on the subject, please feel free to refute them first.

[Vishnal]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

Moderators: I believe this discussion is over. Devo's quintuple post made me sick. Please feel free to lock the thread.

PS: Thanks for your help, Guido.

[devonin]

Re: Easter's Incontinuity.

Erm...I haven't the single faintest clue how that ended up as four posts...that was one edit to the top post in the chain...

Or...wait, actually it simply seems that every single post I was responding to was deleted. In between each of those should be a rather long-winded post by...what's-his-name...Philpwnsyou...I have no idea why his posts are mysteriously gone, but that's still no reason to say that posts on topic in a thread "make you sick"