I'd like to know..

[DancingCow]

I'd really like to know how "God" can condemn someone for something they can't control. For example, one does not make the choice to become homosexual, yet homosexuality is a sin?

I've been seriously questioning my faith lately, and I just don't believe any more. I want answers.

Please share your thoughts, feelings, etc.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: I'd like to know..

Who says they can't control it?

Or rather, since some say it can be controlled and others say it can't, how do you know who is right?

Your question is based on uncertain premises.

And, whatever the answer is to that question, engaging in homosexual acts most certainly is a choice.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Nyokou]

Re: I'd like to know..

How is someone born a homosexual is my question. A baby isn't born with the immediate thought that they've decided to like people of the same gender. Those feelings develop over time, and they CAN be controlled. When people say that they "can't help it", they're lying.
Therefore, homosexuality is something you choose to be. I know this is a weak argument, but I honestly don't understand how a small baby is born homosexual. Becoming homosexual is a choice, not something you're automatically born with. That's my input...
I'm Christian, actually, to be more specific, LDS (mormon). I thought that homosexuality was wrong, but, I really don't at all now because I'm bisexual. However, I do believe that an individual chooses to become whatever they want to be, and they choose to have feelings for whoever they want, no matter what gender, race, age, etc.

[TheRapingDragon]

Re: I'd like to know..

Simple answer would be that "God" in the light that you percieve it, does not exist. There is no astral being who shines down their light on us and makes us follow rules. There may be higher beings, but they do not govern us.

What you are actually talking about as governing the faith of Christianity is that of the church, they are the ones telling you homosexuality and the like is wrong, and that is the information you are following and abiding by.

Gods will, ha.

[Nyokou]

Re: I'd like to know..

Right about now, I would have started preaching the gospel to you, but I'll just keep it to myself. I don't want to appear like a complete idiot when it comes to arguing about whether or not there is a God.

[TheRapingDragon]

Re: I'd like to know..

You can attempt to "preach" all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that what you are told to percieve comes from the Church. The bible is held in complete control by the church, they can change it how they want and make you believe it. They can tell you what is a sin in the eyes of god, they can tell you how to repent. It isn't god telling you all this, it is the church.

Just another democratic parliament under the blanket of false hope.

[Nyokou]

Re: I'd like to know..

The funny thing is that you have not realized that I am a mormon which means I base my religion mostly on the Book of Mormon. And the Bibles we have are different as well.

[Afrobean]

Re: I'd like to know..

The funny thing is that you have not realized that I am a mormon which means I base my religion mostly on the Book of Mormon. And the Bibles we have are different as well.

That doesn't negate the fact that all "holy" writings are written from a man's hand, not a god's. Basically, things are sins because people have said that they are. The only possible exception would be the commandments, but last I checked, there is no commandment against homosexual sex anyway.

[TheRapingDragon]

Re: I'd like to know..

You can attempt to "preach" all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that what you are told to percieve comes from the mormom religious committee, whomever they may be. The mormom scripture, whatever thay may be, is held in complete control by the aforementioned council which I do not know, they can change it how they want and make you believe it. They can tell you what is a sin in the eyes of whatever you may currently believe in, they can tell you how to repay for your sins in whichever way that may be. It isn't [insert idol here] telling you all this, it is the [insert body of people who you must listen to].

Happy?

[GuidoHunter]

Re: I'd like to know..

That doesn't negate the fact that all "holy" writings are written from a man's hand, not a god's. Basically, things are sins because people have said that they are. The only possible exception would be the commandments, but last I checked, there is no commandment against homosexual sex anyway.

Do you just not know anything about the principle tenets of Christianity?

Let me rephrase: How do you know the Bible was written completely of the will of men? Physically? Sure, they transcribed, but according to anyone religious, the words all came from God, inspiring the men.

You have no basis on which to argue against that without making a completely unfounded assumption.

Also, how exactly would you disjoin the commandments from all other sins?

@Reaper: Where did you get the idea that any church can just change the Bible? Also, what religions dictate what is a sin without basing such a judgment in scripture? I'm not very up with Protestant religions, but I know the Catholic Church 100% does not.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[GuidoHunter]

Re: I'd like to know..

New post for importance and completely different direction.

DancingCow: Go talk to a priest or a preacher or what have you. They have the answers; FFR doesn't.

Hell, ANYONE who has questions about religion: GO ASK PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW ABOUT IT. They could answer any question you have. ANY question, especially the ones that commonly come up.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Afrobean]

Re: I'd like to know..

Do you just not know anything about the principle tenets of Christianity?

rofl

Let me rephrase: How do you know the Bible was written completely of the will of men? Physically? Sure, they transcribed, but according to anyone religious, the words all came from God, inspiring the men.

Inspiration is not the same as the original source. Just because a person might have been inspired by some higher power doesn't necessarily mean that they got everything exactly from the said higher source.

You have no basis on which to argue against that without making a completely unfounded assumption.

rofl

You accuse me of making an assumption when in discussion over religion. How about this assumption: "Everything that the Bible says is accurate."

Also, how exactly would you disjoin the commandments from all other sins?

I didn't. All I meant was that everything in the Bible is second hand from mankind. The commandments are supposed to be straight from God himself.

Where did you get the idea that any church can just change the Bible?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I just can't not respond to it.

Long story short, the church can and has changed the Bible. In recent years they haven't made literal changes, however, but just look at the early times of Christianity. Ever hear of the Dead Sea scrolls? You know why they're important, don't you? It's because they're parts of the Bible that the church cut out. In other words, they changed the Bible.

Aside from that, they can change meanings behind things in the Bible. Isn't there something in the Bible about stoning women for being adulterers? "An eye for an eye"? psh.

[Laharl]

Re: I'd like to know..

The funny thing is that you have not realized that I am a mormon which means I base my religion mostly on the Book of Mormon. And the Bibles we have are different as well.

<- Born and raised Mormon, and I can attest to the fact that isn't exactly true. Our keystone religious text is actually the King James version of the Bible. Most the governing ideals of our faith stem from that source. The Book of Mormon serves to reinforce those ideas, and the Doctrine and Covenants is modern-day revelation to our first few prophets.

What I mean is that our bibles aren't any differernt from any other Christian faith. We just sort of have more scripture.

@ TheRapingDragon:

First off, I have no idea how your name is appropriate for this forum. Rape is no laughing matter.

Second:
"You can attempt to "preach" all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that what you are told to percieve comes from the Church. The bible is held in complete control by the church, they can change it how they want and make you believe it. They can tell you what is a sin in the eyes of god, they can tell you how to repent. It isn't god telling you all this, it is the church.

Just another democratic parliament under the blanket of false hope."

Yeah, because everyone that follows a religion does so because it's what they are told and not because it's what they believe for themselves, just as everything you think is entirely derived from your own head and not from the views of society at large enforcing their ideas through the media.

@ Afro:
"Aside from that, they can change meanings behind things in the Bible. Isn't there something in the Bible about stoning women for being adulterers? "An eye for an eye"? psh."

At least in my own religion, we're told to interpret the Bible to get out of it what we can. We're told to study it to get out of it OUR OWN BELIEFS. Anytime someone puts out an idea about what the meaning behind, say, the parables Jesus taught, it's someone doing just that (for any religion or NON religion, for that matter). You interpret it as men putting their ideas down on paper. *shrugs* Okay. Other people see it as divinely inspired works. We deal with you, you deal with us.

[Laharl]

Re: I'd like to know..

Simple answer would be that "God" in the light that you percieve it, does not exist. There is no astral being who shines down their light on us and makes us follow rules. There may be higher beings, but they do not govern us.

What you are actually talking about as governing the faith of Christianity is that of the church, they are the ones telling you homosexuality and the like is wrong, and that is the information you are following and abiding by.

Gods will, ha.

"BLAH BLAH THERE IS NO GOD YOU ARE FOOLISH FOR BELIEVING SO"

Much like I'm sure there's lots of people, probably many much more educated than yourself, that feel the exact same way about you for not believing in a God.

Going "HAHA UR WRONG" to someone won't ever work. Saying "I believe this thing" might actually have them look at what you say with any sort of real introspection on their own beliefs. Try it sometime if you really want people to accept your own views.

[Cavernio]

Re: I'd like to know..

Umm, was that Reaper thing addressed to me? I haven't said anything in this post. I talked about the Bible undergoing changes in a post about evolution awhile back though. The King James Bible is a known, documented revision of the bible. I didn't say that the church randomly changes the bible ever, did I?
I don't know about too many religions besides Christianity, but do Buddhists have scripture? I haven't heard of any if they exist.
Of what religion dictates, I'm sure there's a passage where Jesus is supposed to tell one of his apostles something like "Whatever you release on earth, you will release in heaven" and I guess I've always taken that to be that what is decided as moral by people is what will be decided as moral in heaven. Not sure if that interpretation was from my own head or from a priest.
Also, there's the passage where Jesus says that there're only 2 commandments, that you love God and love your neighbour as you love yourself. (A literal interpretation I suppose would mean that people who go awol and kill people because they hate themselves aren't sinning then :-p)

I'm not convinced of the choice to become homosexual. I'm more convinced right now that people are born that way, but really, I'm unsure. The only thing I know is that I'm not and never have been attracted to women (err, I'm a woman), but if I were in a situation where one were to be doing sexual things to me, I'm sure I would physically respond. Doesn't mean I'm bisexual though. I mean, a guy can be forced to rape someone.

Faith to me was a feeling. When I lost the feeling, I lost my faith, but that's another story. But for some reason, I didn't make an issue about the church not accepting things like homosexuality. I thought/think that it was/is perfectly alright to be homosexual, and I think I thought the church was wrong, but I just thought of that as inacceptance of some people. Again, I based my faith in my feelings, not in the church.