Grammer problems

[-Izzy-]

Ok, there is a serious problem and maybe someone "knows" the right answer.

http://forums.stepmaniaonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=5104

[BluE_MeaniE]

Re: Grammer problems

Well, first of all, you spelled Rhapsody wrong.

If you mean the word, it's obvious because a rhapsody is a singular thing.
So I'll assume you mean the band. And usually it generally goes that "Rhapsody is good". But you would say "they are good" instead of "it is good".

But for a band such as the Rolling Stones, you'd more likely say the Rolling Stones are good.

[jewpinthethird]

Re: Grammer problems

And you spelt Grammar wrong too.

[-Izzy-]

Re: Grammer problems

You are right. Thats dissapointing. Just answer the damn question.
Grammar isnt spelling. I know i have spelling problems.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Grammer problems

If you're talking about the band, it's "Rhapsody is good". I can't really come up with a good way to properly use the band's name as a plural noun. The band is a singular entity, and as such is a singular noun.

If you wanted, you could say "The members of Rhapsody are good." However, I would bet that the proper way to refer to the band is singularly.

EDIT: The real question should come in with: "The Shins is/are good" or any other band/entity that has a plural name. There I'm not too sure.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[-Izzy-]

Re: Grammer problems

Exactly. over at smo they kept trying to prove themselves by giving an exmaple of another sentence that is completly diffrent and doesnt show anything. You could say the members are good. But were not.

[Tokzic]

Re: Grammer problems

You are right. Thats dissapointing.

Also, you spelled disappointing wrong.

[talisman]

Re: Grammer problems

in America it's "is" for a band name signifying a group of people.

in England it's "are". Trust me on this... my first web community was warcraftiii.net (shut up I was 13) where the owners were from scotland and they would always have updates like "Blizzard are adding..." and the like.

[-Izzy-]

Re: Grammer problems

Also, you spelled disappointing wrong.

Go cry about it.

You think its diffrent talisman? I guess i'll trust you.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Grammer problems

That's not to say that you're not making some completely incorrect and stupid arguments, though...

Okay, see rule #14 here: http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp

Rule 14. Collective nouns such as team and staff may be either singular or plural depending on their use in the sentence.
Examples The staff is in a meeting.
Staff is acting as a unit here.
The staff are in disagreement about the findings.
The staff are acting as separate individuals in this sentence. The sentence would read even better like this:
The staff members are in disagreement about the findings.

In the situation that you pose, Izzy, "Rhapsody is good" is correct, but they are also correct in other situations that they pose. Both forms are acceptable, and differ situationally. Post this there.

EDIT: Also, Izzy, why couldn't you just accept that there's a difference between British and American English? I mean, I agree that "Rhapsody are good" sounds atrocious, but that's just how it is in their whacked-out country.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[-Izzy-]

Re: Grammer problems

When, on smo? Because i figured it was the same english language.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Grammer problems

Then consider American a dialect. We have different rules. This is a fact.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[jewpinthethird]

Re: Grammer problems

Then consider American a dialect. We have different rules. This is a fact.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

There are even different dialects of American English. Austrilian English is also probably has it's own dialects. Same goes for the UK. We have different slang, and different ways of going about structuring our sentences.

Personally, I would say "Rhapsody is good." But I would also say "the Shins are good" just because it sounds better.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Grammer problems

Okay, this is the post I would have made on SMO:

Guys, guys, guys. You're both right.

Rhapsody IS good and
Manchester United ARE wearing gold jerseys.

What's the difference? Well, in the latter, the entire team does not wear one collective jersey; each member wears his proper one. The members of the team are acting as individuals when they each wear their jersey. Just because the one name represents the members does not mean the band name is interchangeable with the aggregated names of the respective members. "Rhapsody" does not necessarily equate to "Jim, John, Mike, and Paul" (or whoever they are).

However, Manchester United IS winning. Remember, there is no I in TEAM, so the team functions as a whole in this case. There is a very clear distinction between singular and plural subjects when using the SAME antecedent, if you will. That is, ManU (and, as such, Rhapsody) doesn't have one concrete pronoun for every case. This was misunderstood earlier.

My justification comes from grammarbook.com (Rule 14): http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp
[for which, Izzy, you left out the link]

However, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt (which I believe you rightly deserve, being as how you live in England and I in America) and accept that the English like to use the plural verb when referring to a band or team. Personally, like Izzy, I think it sounds atrocious, but if your grammar books say that that's right, I'm not going to doubt it. The link above doesn't specify which type, so I'm more inclined to believe that "Rhapsody is good" is absolutely correct in any country, but again, I'm not doubting what y'all do.

Plus, "It just sounds better," is a perfectly legitimate reason to question a rule of grammar. As much as you want the English language to be structured, many grammar rules exist just because of how the alternative sounds or flows. Why do you think the artcile "an" exists? It's because "I want a elephant" neither sounds good nor flows well. Why, in Spanish, are singular feminine nounds that have their first syllable accented and beginning with the 'a' sound preceded by a masculine article? Why, when le and lo are put together preceding a verb, is that combination changed to "se lo"? It's because "la alma" and "le lo" don't sound good or flow well. I'm certain there are more examples of that in English, but these are the only ones that immediately come to mind.

So, consider yourselves correct in your respective countries.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[jamuko]

Re: Grammer problems

Guido is our hero!

I love grammar. I am sorely disappointed that there there is virtually no linguistics program at my school. =(


P.S. HIGHLY RELEVANT:

"Le lo's a no-no;
You'll sound like a dodo!"