On Knowledge

[Austaph]

Do you think that change is inevitable or impossible? Is all in a constant state of transformation or does nothing ever change - as once something has changed, it is no longer what it has appeared to once be?

Since all is either always changing or unable to change, is it possible to know anything? What do you think?

[Varia]

RE: On Knowledge

You don't make any sense.

[Austaph]

RE: On Knowledge

The idea is to think about it.

Edit: Ok, let me give an example. A tree begins from a seed. You plant the seed and it begins to sprout a stem. The question is, when does the seed stop being a seed, and begin being a stem? When does the stem stop being a stem and become a tree?

If this process of change is an ongoing constant, then is the seed ever a seed, or the stem ever a stem, since by the time you've recognized what it is, it has already changed into something else. Think about your own consciousness, or the cellular makeup of your body - your cells constantly dying and being replaced. Think "what am I?", and by the time your question is answered, are you still the same I?

What are you conscious of right now? What about right now? Now? When does 6:08:30 become 6:08:31 since a second is divisible into infinity, how are moments inseperable? Or is it all an illusion, and there is one single, eternal moment that spans out to infinity; is the change really not a change at all, but rather a complex array energy being transfered?

This is the Critical Thinking forum, isn't it?

[Verruckter]

RE: On Knowledge

If you're an old man and you die, you're still an old man, but a dead one. You've changed.

[Austaph]

RE: On Knowledge

You're saying there's no difference between man and corpse?

[Verruckter]

Re: RE: On Knowledge

If you're an old man and you die, you're still an old man, but a dead one. You've changed.

[Sera13]

RE: Re: RE: On Knowledge

asdfghjkl

[psychic25]

RE: Re: RE: On Knowledge

Uh...

First off, what about universal constants? I'll refute myself with this, but still:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...mber=1&catID=2

Second, the changes that you describe in your example all refer to living things. What about inanimate objects? Is a rock on the ground going to change in any way? If so, explain how.

Actually, explain how a rock in an artificial vacuum is going to change in any way, just so we don't have to deal with environmental conditions.

[Verruckter]

RE: Re: RE: On Knowledge

This topic really isn't clear.

[psychic25]

RE: Re: RE: On Knowledge

Um...

I think that you're saying that if everything changes, knowing a fixed fact is impossible, because it's going to change as soon as you "understand" the fact.

Also, in my last post, I forgot to mention numerical constants. What about those? The concept of "four" is NOT going to change, no matter what. Even if the universal constants don't hold, basic arithmetic will.

[somerndmguy]

Re: On Knowledge

Things will change, they will always change.
Everything is in a transition: there is not just one black and one white. There is always this blurry spot in the middle... take the seed and the plant.

In the beginning, it is a seed. As it transitions into a plant, it will become less and less a seed, and more and more a plant. (It really is a case of human thought, now that I look at what I wrote. I mean, exactly WHAT is defined as a plant?)

I'm starting to confuse myself... but my excuse is that I'm only 14.

[The_Q]

Re: On Knowledge

A square is a rectangle but not all rectangles are squares. A square is a rhombus but not all rhombi are squares. If you stretch a square so that it's sides are still parallel but it's angles aren't right, it has changed, but it is still a rhombus.

Change is defined by a defined origin and an end point. The change from seed to stem occurs because the beginning point and end point are defined and the state of the observed object has not remained constant.

More mathematically, change is N-N(nought).

Trying to sound deep doesn't work against established principles.

Q

EDIT: My name is NOT a Star Trek reference! It is about my own name. Stop making stupid assumptions!

[Grandiagod]

Re: On Knowledge

Q you make Star Trek awesome. But seriously, change is possible. A person can go from an athlete to a vegetable in the time it takes to do a kickflip. A volcano can create an island. A stoner can quit drugs. Unless your talking quantum change. That's different and I really don't want to write 12 paragraphs on it.

[super-smashman]

Re: On Knowledge

A fact is what we perceive to be the truth right now. The same information might be a fact forever or change moments after it is deemed a fact. A certainty is impossible to know, since you can't know if anything is even real. Hence one of my favourite sayings: The only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain. So basically, you can't know anything.

[SethSquall]

Re: On Knowledge

I can see what you mean. I think some things never change though.

For example, The saying " You can take the boy out of the village, but you cant take the village out of the boy" .