Controversial Topics-Abortion

[AlbinoLime]

RE: Re: RE: Controversial Topics

The topic of abortion has already been discussed here (you weren't registered here yet). It didn't get anywhere and just turned into a pile of shit. Change the subject to something more interesting. Maybe something like what we should do to Saddam, and why his current inprisonment is considered unlawful by some.

[Tonberry_Kid]

RE: Re: RE: Controversial Topics

I will give it a day, then I'll change it.

[Sera13]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Controversial Topics

That was just totally pwnd by Sera. Nice.

thanx. I love these critical thinking things, I guess cuz i think to much, but i never noticed it was here until now.. so this aught to be fun!

are we really going to do abortion? I am slightly against such an arguement becuase when a person full heartedly believes in any such subject there is no changing their mind. Most become very stubborn, irratated of often offended in such conversations. The more people state their oppions and reasoning why, regaurdless of quality or truth behind it, nothing comes of the disscussion but a full fledge argument of people repeating themselves and theri belifes over and over to those who are doing the same, and no one will budge on their stance. .. sigh..

[Tonberry_Kid]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Controversial Topics

But still, what are your views on the subject? The only thing I can say is, abortion should only really be allowed from a rape victim who got pregnant. Because, you are basically killing someone. And who knows, that fetus could have been the person to find a cure for HIV/AIDS.

[Sera13]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Controversial Topics

I agree wth you, but i dont think rape victims should be allowed to abort, Adoption yes. abortion no becuase like you said, that person could be the one to cure AIDS. However i believe that if a fetus is found to have a cronical illness and will suffer the few years of its life and then die at a young age it should be allowed to be abort, i almost think it should be required becuase there is no sense in havnig a child who will suffer until its 5 then die, leacing the family with million of dollars and hospital bills and extreme agony. I am not talking about being blind or deff or even retardation. im talking about things like Tay-Sachs disease, a fatal disease that affects the central nervous system. I am sure there are several flaws with this like Diseaes that COULD make a child suffer, or a diseas that will not devolpe until later in life, another flaw would be inbetween diseaes like hemophilia, where the child would have to live in fear their whole life but the chances of fatality are alot less likely..

[whorlichan]

RE: Re: RE: Controversial Topics

Abortion is another topic where the government and religious entities are butting in where they do not belong.

WARNING: THIS WILL BE LONG

Abortion should be the choice of the woman whose body is in question. HER choice--not her parents, like the new law in Florida, not her boyfriend or husband's (although they should be included in the discussion, which I'll touch on in a minute), not the doctors who refuse to perform it, and definitely not the priests or rabbis or whoever. It is no one's issue but her own, and no one but she should have the final say in it.

Do you think it's right? As in morally right? As in the right choice? That all depends on the girl it's happening to and her own beliefs. For myself, if I were ever to end up in a situation where I was pregnant (unlikely, as I'm on birth control) I would definitely have an abortion. It would be right for ME--I don't like children, don't want to deal with them, and definitely don't want to go through the pain and suffering of pregnancy and childbirth. Also, even though I don't like kids, I would never want to subject anyone to having me as a mother. I would suck royally, and I see enough kids who do not have happy home lives as it is. I KNOW I would be bad at it, and therefore I will not contribute to it, even by accident.

A couple more reasons as to my unwillingness to have children, besides the selfish ones of liking my life and (very little) free time as it is...I think if someone IS going to have children they should have a stable home life and a stable financial base to work from. I have very little money (still mooching off my own parents, who bought the house I am now living in and pay for pretty much everything) and I simply do not have the time or the energy to devote to a child. Again--I don't want them for OTHER reasons, but if I ever change my mind (highly unlikely) these are the first things I would consider.

Also, I'm Jewish, but not really practicing--more of the reformed Israeli-we-are-from-the-Chosen-Land-therefore-we-don't-really-have-to-do-anything sect--and by traditional Jewish law it's pretty well accepted for women to have abortions. From religioustolerance.org:

1. "The fetus has great value because it is potentially a human life. It gains "full human status at birth only."
2. Abortions are not permitted on the grounds of genetic imperfections of the fetus.
3. Abortions are permitted to save the mother's life or health.
4. With the exception of some Orthodox authorities, Judaism supports abortion access for women.

Lastly, I think that the decision to have an abortion should definitely be discussed, at the very least with the partner who got the girl pregnant. I don't think he should be allowed to force her to keep it just because he wants it (even if he will take sole responsibility for it once born), because she is the one who has to go through the traumatic experiences involved in the pregnancy and childbirth itself, even if she does not have to raise the child herself.

Do you think it should be used as a means of birth control? No. Definitely not. An abortion is a traumatic experience in and of itself, and should be one of the last resorts. Birth control and condoms are too easily accessible for anyone to have an excuse for not using them. Also, it's people who DO use abortion as a method of birth control that give those who really need it a bad precedent. I've known girls from high school who continuously got pregnant and got abortions each time, and it makes me sick.

My best friend and I went to Planned Parenthood together when we were 16 and got her a year-long supply of BC for about $40 and a huge assortment of condoms for free. I personally have been on BC since I was 12, for medical reasons, and so did not have need of Planned Parenthood, but I am always happy to know it's there. And condoms are given out free at many colleges, if not high schools. There's just no excuse to have abortions willy-nilly.

What times do you think abortion COULD be considered OK? Again, depending on the girl and her wishes, and often the circumstances, I think abortion is a great idea. There's no need to bring unwanted children into an already crowded world, even if they could be the one to cure cancer/AIDS/the common cold. There's been times when I have read newspaper articles about girls who were denied abortions and they made me LIVID. That 13-year-old in Florida, anyone remember her? She should not be having SEX much less getting pregnant, but the government would not allow her to have an abortion "for the good of the child." Well, SHE's a child too. Why didn't anyone care about her well-being? Eventually, it was appealed and she got it, but I don't even see why it was an issue.

As for rape victims--you guys have no idea what you're talking about. Adoption ONLY? Why should a girl who never wanted to have sex with this person have to suffer MORE memories of her horrible experience? Forget the depression and problems that come with being raped WITHOUT getting pregnant, and focus just on the emotional pain she'll be in from 9 months of carrying a rapist's child, even if she (again) doesn't have to raise it herself. And think about it this way--rape is a product of a mentally diseased mind, and why would you want to pass on that genetic heritage? Any rape victim should have access to abortion, the Morning-After Pill, whatever. It is her right, because she never consented to the act of procreation in the first place.

Do you think it should be against the law? No. I think it should be legal, and relatively cheap, and easily available, and then we would have no more problems with back-alley abortions and girls who can't afford it using their boyfriends to beat their stomachs and then get them arrested for it.

One last point, having to do with this issue: All those pharmacists who are refusing to give out birth control and the morning-after pill because they see it as a chemical abortion should be fired. I should not have to fight with a pharmacist after my doctor has agreed that it is better for MY HEALTH to be on this pill. A rape victim should not be denied the morning-after pill, because that simply forces her to go elsewhere and get a real, more painful, more traumatic abortion.

[Sera13]

RE: Re: RE: Controversial Topics

Question 1:

If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who
were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had
syphilis, would you recommend that she have an abortion?

Read the next question before looking at the answer for this one.


Question 2:

It is time to elect a new world leader, and only your vote counts. Here
are the facts about the three leading candidates.



Candidate A -

Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with astrologists.
He's had two Mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10
martinis a day.



Candidate B -

He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until

noon, used opium in college and drinks a quart of whiskey every evening.




Candidate C -

He is a decorated war hero. He's a vegetarian, doesn't smoke, drinks an
occasional beer and never cheated on his wife.

Which of these candidates would be your Choice?

Decide first, no peeking, then scroll down for the answer.



----------------------------------------------





Candidate A: is Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Candidate B: is Winston Churchill.
Candidate C: is Adolph Hitler.


And, by the way, the answer to the abortion question: If you said yes,
you just killed Beethoven.

Pretty interesting isn't it? Makes a person think before judging
someone.

Never be afraid to try something new.



Remember:

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic


and in case you never saw this one..!

Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:

* 29 have been accused of spousal abuse
* 7 have been arrested for fraud
* 19 have been accused of writing bad checks
* 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
* 3 have done time for assault
* 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
* 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
* 8 have been arrested for shoplifting
* 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
* 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year

Can you guess which organization this is?


Give up yet?


It's the 535 members of the United States Congress. The same group of people that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.

[jewpinthethird]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Controversial Topics

It's the 535 members of the United States Congress. The same group of idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.

Idiots whom we the people elected.

[Sera13]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Controversial Topics

I didnt notice the idiots part.. i think i will edit that one.. and yeah, americans elected these "idiots" but thats becuase we blindly elect people, we cant know of all their faults.. but yeah.. i shall edit that one.

[Eyoshi]

Surprising stuff, you've got there, Sera. I never knew those things.
My views are:
Abortion being right or not depends on the situations. I think it is right if the one pregnant is a rape victim, as it was not her fault that she got pregnant and that it was caused by rape. BUT, for it to be used as a means of birth control is wrong. If someone decides to have sex, he/she should just go get a box of condoms or birth control pills. After all, there are many easy-to-do ways for birth control. Abortion should NOT be considered against the law (look at the second sentence of this paragraph for my reason).
Also, abortion should not be banned because the fetus COULD contribute significantly to society. Just because something has potential doesn't mean it will do something. The idea of "could" can greatly complicate things, as even doing something such as posting on this forum would be considered unsafe because there is a POSSIBILITY of a hacker stealing my username and password as I log in to post.
One more thing, the idea of abortion killing depends on how one defines "human life". For me, I generally consider someone to have "human life" when the person is born, at least not when the person is an embryo.

[Sera13]

i am still sticking with my oppinion, but i believe everyone of you have good oppions and several good points, however i think we shoudl refraim from pointing out rights and wrong becuase in this type of battle, its all oppinion and there is really no rights and wrongs and it will just cuase a fight.

[User6773]

Locking the topic because the whole idea of this thing is stupid. I thought that you were going to make a new topic every Sunday, Tonberry, not just dictate when discussions begin and end at your own whims. In addition, this whole forum is largely about controversial topics, so I don't see why we need one topic for all of them.