Absolute Morals

[PowerCosmic]

I was observing our society, and reading through many of the posts, and I noticed a trend towards subjective rules and away from absolute morals. My question is if there is anyone believes in absolute morals anymore, or if everyone believes in subjectivity. Questions that could fall under this topic could be "Do the means justify the ends?" and "Is it right to steal bread for your starving family?" Note that if you believed in absolute morals, they would not neccessarily have to be the standard views accepted. I just want to hear people's views on absolute morals and if there are any.

[Kilgamayan]

RE: Absolute Morals

I have come to learn everything is subjective.

[Aedak]

I'd have to agree with Kilga on this one, everything is subjective and influenced by our upbringing and social environment. To one culture or many, they might consider the killing of another human being as something you should never do; or an absolute moral. However, another culture might support human sacrifices, such as the Aztecs; or Cannibals who eat their own. To these, I'm sure they don't share the same morals.

So, this is an example of one such instance where we might think we have absolute morals; however another culture somewhere might have a completely differing belief system. Now, if you're talking about within our own community, that's another subject entirely. Still, I would tend to say there will always be radical thinkers out there with differing morals.

Before we try to debate further, could you define your interpretation of absolute morals, so we don't go down a nasty road first of misunderstandings?

[PowerCosmic]

Absolute morals are actions or behavior that would be right under any circumstances, regardless of culture, upbringing, etc. For example, some might believe it is absolutely wrong to rape under any circumstances, no matter what the culture or the upbringing of the person tells them. In the case of cultures that say it is ok to rape, than the person with absolute morals would believe that the culture as a whole is wrong, and should be changed.

Someone who believes in human rights believes in absolute morals, because they believe everyone in the world should have a certain set of rights regardless of what their culture or governing body says or does.

I believe certain things are wrong, no matter what the situation. Abortion is wrong. Rape is wrong. I don't believe that any circumstances or upbringing would make either of those two things right. I don't want this to degrade into a discussion on a specific topic, so try and keep it to the absolute morals portion of the discussion, but feel free to voice what you think the absolute morals are if there are any.

[Aedak]

Abortion is wrong. Rape is wrong. I don't believe that any circumstances or upbringing would make either of those two things right. I don't want this to degrade into a discussion on a specific topic, so try and keep it to the absolute morals portion of the discussion, but feel free to voice what you think the absolute morals are if there are any.

See I would argue with you there, we have a whole thread on abortion. There are no absolute morals, everything is subjective and going to be interpreted differently depending on the upbringing and developed morals one has. Just as you think they wouldn't be right under any circumstances, I believe not having the choice is wrong. Anyway, I don't think absolute morals exist at all, as it is always possible to have another side, no matter how right you think you are, "Good" will always be relative in the eye of the beholder.

[User6773]

If there are no absolute morals, there should be no laws.

[Kilgamayan]

Just because a large majority of a country believes certain things should not be allowed doesn't mean everyone on the planet feels the same way.

[zildjian133]

Not only do they don't feel the same way they also believe the complete opposite, like suicide its against the law to kill yourself in the United States but in some cultures its an honorable way to die, like the Japanese... Maybe the only one I can think of is Murder, I doubt in any culture theres any justification to pointless murder...

[PowerCosmic]

The thing about absolute morals is that it doesn't matter how a person, or how many people believe in that thing, it is still going to be right, because it is absolute. Thus, some cultures would be entirely wrong in their actions, because they do not follow the ultimate moral guidlines. where do these guidelines come from? God in my opinion, but many do not agree with me. Also, just because something is wrong does not mean it won't be done. Example: I think killing is wrong. However, I would kill someone to prevent them from blowing a building full of people. Is what I did wrong? yes, but I did it to prevent a much greater wrong, which is the death of thousands of people. the right thing to do would have been to stop this person without killing them, but if that is not in my power, than killing is the only way to prevent that greater wrong.

I also think that it is more popular to believe these days that morals are totally subjective instead of believing that we are all accountable to a specific moral agent, because it is much easier to not feel any guilt or remorse for actions if we are not ultimately accountable.

[Kilgamayan]

Maybe the only one I can think of is Murder, I doubt in any culture theres any justification to pointless murder...

Hitler felt the holocaust was for the good of Germany, and possibly humanity as a whole.

[zildjian133]

Yeah... but he a had a reason, wrong reason... I said meaningless murder.

[Kilgamayan]

In his mind, and in the minds of many other Germans, what he was doing was right.

And I personally believe that if the Axis Powers had won World War II, they wouldn't be held in an "evil" connotation.

[zildjian133]

So?

[DonCasablanca]

The only way I see around this question is discussing universally wrong/right motivations, rather than universally wrong/right actions per se: I consider any and all actions motivated by spite morally wrong. As far as particular actions, it is impossible to define universal rights and wrongs, as concepts of right and wrong are particular to different cultures.

And if we try to find any genetic basis for morality -- any hard-wired right or wrong (infanticide, perhaps?) -- such genes mutate, leaving us where we started. Again, even if there was any genetic support for hard-wired morality, it is clear that culture, and society could warp that morality; psychologists know that conceptions of morality are mostly acquired, at a young age.

[Kilgamayan]

So?

...So it shows that "Murder is bad" is not an absolute moral.

What did you think I was trying to prove?