Speech, Power, and Responsibility

[klimtkiller]

Re: Speech, Power, and Responsibility

It's been a while since I made this thread and I know he's not doing well lately so I've kind of been ignoring him. However, from memory:

I really do think he sincerely believes in a lot of what he's saying. He DOES seem to follow the Jungian paradigm (almost to a T... way more than is accepted by the scientific community at large). I really do think he believes a lot of what he wrote in "12 Rules." I also think he (at least at as within his capacity as a therapist) DOES derive sincere satisfaction and pleasure from helping people, especially disenfranchised young men. This is perfectly valuable.

Things get a little muddy when you consider his position as a celebrity and pop-science leader.

I feel like a lot of people in his position compromise their integrity to appeal to more people. (Grifting) I'd need to look at some of his claims but Peterson almost certainly has done this and had profited off of it. (Not totally sure, but I do not totally think "12 Rules" falls in this category.)

One immediately obvious logical failure is in how he applies the basic tenets of Jungian thought. Jung never really dove into psychologies that emerge from actual SYSTEMIC, OPPRESSIVE societal structures. Most of it essentially treats all psychology under the same umbrella, which whitewashes almost all cases where "pick yourself up by your bootstraps!" logic flatly cannot work.

yeah i can agree that the whole 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps' mentality, while useful, doesn't work for everyone in the face of overriding circumstances.

that said, from what i've seen of him, although there's stuff i disagree with, he doesn't have any 'evil' beliefs, and has legitimately helped people. I think he was using lobsters to show that hierarchies exist in nature and isn't something that has been invented by our human society, which is true. I don't think he was trying to condone 'systems of oppression'

[SputnikOwns]

Re: Speech, Power, and Responsibility

I don't really buy into the whole idea of there being universal archetypes etc. that he's always talking about. I think he's helped plenty of people find meaning in life, though. He's a good man.

'Systematic oppression' is such a useless term. On a personal level, to believe that everything is beyond your control is to sabotage yourself. Instead, focus on what you can control and do something about it. And if you actually want to address something in the system that you think is unjust, then you should identify it specifically. If you're too vague about it, you're intentionally obscuring the actual issues that you want to be resolved. I'm not sure why victimhood is such a currency these days.

[j-rodd123]

Re: Speech, Power, and Responsibility

So you're saying they value the pay more than their time. Good, they shouldn't quit their job. It's not 'privilege', it's common sense.

huh? it's common sense to stay at the shitty paying job if it is necessary to pay bills/rent etc. until a better paying position is secured. especially in certain industries where finding a relevant job might be harder. im one of the privileged ones to never have been in this position luckily but saying "if you value your time more than getting paid you should obviously quit" is obviously incredibly stupid advice for a large percent of the working class.

[SputnikOwns]

Re: Speech, Power, and Responsibility

huh? it's common sense to stay at the shitty paying job if it is necessary to pay bills/rent etc. until a better paying position is secured. especially in certain industries where finding a relevant job might be harder. im one of the privileged ones to never have been in this position luckily but saying "if you value your time more than getting paid you should obviously quit" is obviously incredibly stupid advice for a large percent of the working class.

Well obviously they wouldn't quit if they need the money, that's my point.

[j-rodd123]

Re: Speech, Power, and Responsibility

ah ok my bad. your first statement just seemed kind of dumb which prompted funny's response. like a lot of people value their time a lot more than what they're getting paid, but don't have the ability to quit

[Kattedjiron]

Re: Speech, Power, and Responsibility

What's going on here?

[DaBackpack]

Re: Speech, Power, and Responsibility

im honored to know that my thread was relevant enough for bots to post in it

[mellonxcollie]

Re: Speech, Power, and Responsibility

The power is damaging if you don’t know how to use it

accurate username