Gender and violence issues

[Zaevod]

I don't know if this is the kind of thing most people would be willing to discuss, here. In fact, I'm not sure what is the community's general position in regards to ideologies such as feminism (I was banned from TvTropes for daring to voice my disagreement with feminism).

Anyway, I found this video on the subject which I found very interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw_UlUGoUV4&feature=share

In general, it explains how women are far more determinant and responsible than society believes they are in the cycle of violence, in several different ways.

It's long, but very complete and quite revolting in a few parts. The author cites a lot of sources. I can't check the validity of all the statistics in the video, but they seem to be coherent.

It would be interesting if a feminist took the time to watch and attempt refute each point, though I'm pretty sure some would just make generic accusations of "gish gallop" (has happened before), which is a very convenient way of not having to bother to make an argument. Something other than "the studies are biased" would also be good. Of course no study is completely free of bias, but when several figures agree like that, there's something definitely worth looking into.

[devonin]

Re: Gender and violence issues

Before this starts (and inevitably gets out of hand) I'd just like to make sure Zaevod and everyone else is aware that "Several figures agree" does not in any way suggest that something is worthy of significant consideration.

Statistical analysis can imply that cancer causes cellphones, and that the popularity of firefox is tied to the popularity of wiccanism. Also that pirates were the only thing keeping AIDS under control.

Be careful you don't assume something is true because "a bunch of people say it" or "A number of statistics agree"

[choof]

Re: Gender and violence issues

are we talking feminism as in "womyn" or feminism as in "full gender equality"

[Zaevod]

Re: Gender and violence issues

Feminist equality is really "equality under the feminist worldview" which often includes blaming everything on "the Patriarchy". In other words, it's highly debatable.

Before this starts (and inevitably gets out of hand) I'd just like to make sure Zaevod and everyone else is aware that "Several figures agree" does not in any way suggest that something is worthy of significant consideration.

Statistical analysis can imply that cancer causes cellphones, and that the popularity of firefox is tied to the popularity of wiccanism. Also that pirates were the only thing keeping AIDS under control.

Be careful you don't assume something is true because "a bunch of people say it" or "A number of statistics agree"

Sorry, several figures agree and at least appear to be well funded. I can't say that they are absolutely true, obviously, but they seem to come from respectable sources.

Did you really mean "cancer causes cellphones"?

[dAnceguy117]

Re: Gender and violence issues

Feminist equality is really "equality under the feminist worldview" which often includes blaming everything on "the Patriarchy"

is this part of a definition, or is this based on your own observation? could you post a source?

do you disagree with the idea and goal of gender equity?

[Izzy]

Re: Gender and violence issues

I don't see anything inherently wrong with gender equality other than genders not being the same so they are already fundamentally different. However, most of the time when I hear about feminism it seems to be about wanting women to be superior and not equal.

Maybe it is possible to be equal but different. There would still be people complaining though.

[Zaevod]

Re: Gender and violence issues

is this part of a definition, or is this based on your own observation? could you post a source?

It's based on the observation of many, actually. You can't merely take the dictionary definition of a movement or ideology and claim that that's all it is; you need to take into account the impact it has on reality.

Watching that video helps, as it refutes many claims commonly held by feminists. This also helps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXIjLJWHJUo

do you disagree with the idea and goal of gender equity?

No, but you need to define equality in this context. Men and women are, by default, not equal. You need to define whether you want equality of opportunity (which I support) or outcome (which needs to be enforced through different means, and I don't agree with). If opportunity is equal (in some cases, women have more opportunity through things such as quotas) outcome will not necessarily be the same, because men and women don't have the exact same interests, on average.

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: Gender and violence issues

ehhh I mean, a woman pretty much gets knocked out of commission for ~9 months if they have a child. That in itself is a big reason I don't think men and women can ever be equal and must have roles.

All humans would probably be equal if we had no sexuality. Anyone wanna get their nuts chopped off?

[dAnceguy117]

Re: Gender and violence issues

Zaevod: that's why I used "equity" instead of "equality." different genders are most definitely not identical. equity means fairness, and I would say that giving an entire school class a 95% on an exam regardless of what answers they wrote down is not fair. equal opportunity is fair.

you may not be disagreeing with feminism but rather with what some people who identify as feminists are saying. if you're not using a specific definition for an ideology, then how can you disagree with the ideology?

ehhh I mean, a woman pretty much gets knocked out of commission for ~9 months if they have a child. That in itself is a big reason I don't think men and women can ever be equal and must have roles.

any person can get knocked out of commission for some amount of time if they get sick or injured. based on the above statement what kind of role do you think is suitable?

[Zaevod]

Re: Gender and violence issues

Zaevod: that's why I used "equity" instead of "equality." different genders are most definitely not identical. equity means fairness, and I would say that giving an entire school class a 95% on an exam regardless of what answers they wrote down is not fair. equal opportunity is fair.

you may not be disagreeing with feminism but rather with what some people who identify as feminists are saying. if you're not using a specific definition for an ideology, then how can you disagree with the ideology

An extreme example to illustrate my point: if nazis came to you and defined nazism as the ideology that fights for the true greater good of humanity, would you start to defend nazism?

A lot of self-declared feminists claim to fight for equality but have done and said distasteful things. Claiming that they are "not true feminists" is a "no true scotsman" fallacy.

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: Gender and violence issues

any person can get knocked out of commission for some amount of time if they get sick or injured. based on the above statement what kind of role do you think is suitable?

I'm quite content with being the one who has to get a job and provide for my future family, as long as someone is there to stay home and keep things in order. That kind of woman seems really rare nowadays though lol.

I guess if it has to be one way or the other I wouldn't mind sitting around minding the children either.

[devonin]

Re: Gender and violence issues

I wouldn't mind sitting around minding the children either.

The fact that you'd describe that role as "sitting around" shows how little you understand it.

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: Gender and violence issues

The fact that you'd describe that role as "sitting around" shows how little you understand it.

Nice stab. If I don't understand it, then explain your knowledge of the subject. I am, after all, only 18 and haven't had any chance to see anything for myself.

I'm not so naive to think that taking care of children is a walk in the park. I have 3 nephews and they're true terror. I also had to act as the mature older brother of two hyperactive children, and my mother wasn't very good at what she did.

[choof]

Re: Gender and violence issues

that wasn't a stab, your post really did show how little you know about raising a child. or at least, extended periods with children.

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: Gender and violence issues

Okaayy, so I guess I need to watch my posts to make sure you guys don't grab the wrong meaning from it? Of course I didn't mean literally sitting around. Only a retard would think that. Taking care of children is far from it, and it's stressful as hell. Being a parent is pretty much the only profession that you will never get paid for. Thus why I think it is an important role that one partner must take.

Can we move on or are we going to nitpick my post more?