"Bad schoolwork ethic"

[Oni-Paranoia]

Re: "Bad schoolwork ethic"

My story:

To the outside person, I usually seem notoriously lazy and just skate through, even though I still seemed to succeed grade-wise. I graduated high school rank 7, which was skewed because I had many less weighted classes due to taking band 8 semesters in block system, but I had good enough grades to beat most people (I was rank 2 behind our eventual valedictorian before the fewer-than-the-rest-of-the-top-ten AP classes really started to kick in). But I got 100%s in classes in which I was asleep half the time, where other people had to work really hard to get A's. A lot of people against whom I competed in high school didn't really like me because it seemed like I was beating them with no effort whatsoever.

I ended up going to a pretty small state school (Appalachian State University) with a full ride. Judging by where the other people in my graduating class went, I probably could have gone to one of the more reputable schools in the region (such as UVA or Duke or whatever), but I went where it was free lol. To a lot of people, they thought I was just being lazy or something, but I really like the school and just didn't want to go anywhere else.

But my desire for underachieving, if you want to call it that, comes from much earlier in school. In elementary/middle school, I was always the smartest kid in the class and I could nearly always answer every question the teacher would ask. But I was also very self-conscious (especially in middle school) and didn't want to be that guy who answers everything, so I would usually not answer. Like many kids, I didn't think being the smart kid was cool, so I always tried to downplay my grades and what not. That kinda led to me not being overly competitive in high school (and I guess in college as well).

So it seemed to other people like I had no work ethic, but I never felt the need to put in a ton of effort when I could get just as good of grades by not putting in any effort and just relying on my natural ability. Obviously, I can't always rely on natural ability, and I have to put in much more effort in college, but that was my story through high school. Had I not been innately intelligent, I never would've had good grades in high school because of the lack of effort I put in.

You were use to lacking effort and creating good grades and you were just straight accustomed to that even when you tried to "downgrade". Others like me decided to lack effort and continue to lack everything else, like an addiction.

[foxfire667]

Re: "Bad schoolwork ethic"

Personally, I'd have to say that any form of bad school/work ethic would have to come from a mentality gained from somewhere in your life, which baically emulated the idea that actually getting the job done is unneessary, or does not effect you enough as somehing else does. Maybe this means that you feel school and homework don't have as much of an effect on you as missing out on a rock concert with your friends...or possibly that you feel like you can barely pass without doing certain things, so you decide not to do them. This plays back on whether or not you know the effects of not doing well in school, or that it doesn't satasfy you to do good when you could be doing a, b, and c of whatever that you enjoy doing instead.

As for your side note though, usually those that try hard enough (whom are not mentally unable to grasp the concept) will not fall into that situation. Yes, there are occasions where teachers are strict or unjust, or possibly that one serious asignment weighs down a person's grade...but if they are doing good throughout all the other areas of the class it should not destroy their grade, or if it was that serious of an assignment they would have been trying hard enough to at least have remembered to complete it. If you are a person who has a decent school ethic, chances are you won't be annoying your teacher...so any form of bias they may have would probably not apply to you as much considering you are "a good seed in the group". In addition, teachers usually are out to help students, and in such a situation you could probably stay after school of ask for additional projects to boost your grade up to a disirable number.

As for myself personally...I don't exactly try hard in school at all. I try based on how much is required of me to acheve at the very minimum an A- (which is fairly easy for the majority of the time) but in situations where more is expected, I just try harder to get the desired grade. I've been on the superior honor roll all through high school...generaly because it's not too hard to pull off and because I know it is going to help me in the long run (I was fairly lax and didn't care what my grades were until specifically 8th gade, when I was submitting for high schools and preparing for my future). Although, it isn't like school consumes me to get decent grades or anything...I mean, I procrastinate everything...play FFR, hang out, code, etc before even considering homework (which usually gets pushed to like 11PM before I start it), study for tests in home-room, etc. The only thing I can think of that might partially answer this is I don't like human error, and when I don't know something, get something incorrect...or when something is below par for me I always find out why and how to fix it.

[Without A Contraceptive]

Re: "Bad schoolwork ethic"

I ended up going to a pretty small state school (Appalachian State University) with a full ride.

yo come over for a drink. i live on poplar grove rd right by ingles off 105 sucka

[dore]

Re: "Bad schoolwork ethic"

I'll try to remember that

[Mulie]

Re: "Bad schoolwork ethic"

People don't know anything. We gather information by using language and communication to integrate the collective wisdom of others into ourselves.

That collective wisdom alone doesn't provide much of any abstract insight. Sometimes we engage in introspecting, and when we do, our methods and observations are stylized by our peripheral scope. Yet in conversationally incited introspection (when other people are involved), our observations seem to be limited by the presence of the collective whole.

We're put into school at a stage where we couldn't possibly comprehend its significance; whatever that may turn out to be in the future. (Some people conclude its benefit is in gaining some sort of advantage in The Rat Race; a metaphor I think very well describes the general human condition.) Thus, being unable to introspect, those people that place emphasis on schoolwork at the high school stage (the successful people) do so because they have been influenced in a way inclining them to place emphasis on whatever was needed to get them working; not because they have a profound reason.

This same argument applies to many different things, though the matter of schoolwork in high school is a particularly good example. People so young have little to no experiences with which to derive a solution to the question of why they have to go through high school, so generally speaking, even under the laxest definition of "free will", in the big picture there's really little to none.

[Rubin0]

Re: "Bad schoolwork ethic"

I know a few people that find it comforting to constantly mention how intelligent they think they are even though they don't do well in school. They are the same people that insult people that do well in school by asserting that good grades do not dictate intelligence. I used to be one of those people, but then I realized how stupid and naive I sounded. You can go through life believing you are intelligent, but unless you use that intelligence you are not reaching your full potential anyway, so stop mentioning it. There is nothing smart about getting D's and F's in school and you are not impressing anyone with a low GPA, especially not possible employers in the future.

[Reincarnate]

Re: "Bad schoolwork ethic"

I know a few people that find it comforting to constantly mention how intelligent they think they are even though they don't do well in school. They are the same people that insult people that do well in school by asserting that good grades do not dictate intelligence. I used to be one of those people, but then I realized how stupid and naive I sounded. You can go through life believing you are intelligent, but unless you use that intelligence you are not reaching your full potential anyway, so stop mentioning it. There is nothing smart about getting D's and F's in school and you are not impressing anyone with a low GPA, especially not possible employers in the future.

Hahahaha, I notice this too.

[Arch0wl]

Re: "Bad schoolwork ethic"

relevant: http://www.keybeatonline.com/forums/...ead.php?t=3030

[Reach]

Re: "Bad schoolwork ethic"

An assortment of variables culminate over time in combination with factors that have been there from the beginning to form what becomes a 'bad schoolwork ethic'.

Some people are naturally predisposed to this type of behavior because of personality factors, many of which manifest themselves early in life and remain largely immutable. Studies show, for example, large correlations between GPA and certain personality factors.

Of course, people can learn to overcome many of these factors with hard work, but whether or not they're willing to put in that work in the first place might be related to those immutable personality variables, creating an interesting loop. Can people really overcome factors that have a negative feedback on the ability to overcome those factors? Probably, but it might be harder than simply having the desire to do well in school and trying hard.


To a small degree, how well you do in school is related to your intellectual ability, largely because most tests have psychometric properties associated with them. I know this wasn't the point of the thread, so I'll leave it at that, but this brings up a larger issue Arch0wl mentions in his other thread.

Because of the relationship between school and intelligence and the general recognition of this relationship among students, people that want to protect an intelligent self image probably engage in forms of ego protection. I know I used to be really bad for this, and still am to a degree. Because people perceive themselves as intelligent, and perceive school to be related to intelligence in some way, they don't like to put themselves in a position where their performance in school might reflect negatively on their intelligence.

As such, many people don't try nearly as hard as they could if they wanted to put themselves out on the line. In particular, they don't put forth the necessary work on the basics, such as study techniques and memory heuristics, things that are often the most important factors in academic success. As a tutor, I notice that in the majority of people I'm working with, their problem is fundamental within their general ability to study and memorize the material properly in preparation for the test. Often times they don't have trouble learning the material once it's explained properly, but still do bad on the tests anyway because of these basic factors.


From these factors extends our self perceived abilities, which is also incredibly important in test performance. These expectations come from within, but also from others; expectation of performance from people around us can dramatically change our self perceived abilities.

People might perceive themselves as intelligent, but if they aren't necessarily doing really well in school they might perceive themselves as being 'intelligent but not good at school'. Inevitably this perception causes a feedback that prevents them from doing as well as they could on tests if they changed that perception to being 'intelligent and as good as I want to be at school'. If you go into a test with the mindset of getting as close to 100% as possible, and the confidence to do so, you'll do a lot better than someone that isn't confident in their abilities and is just going to 'see what happens'.

I used to struggle with exactly this problem and got mediocre grades in school until I changed the way I perceived my abilities and actually started working hard at the fundamentals and fully preparing myself to maximize my performance on tests.

[Reincarnate]

Re: "Bad schoolwork ethic"

"Don't think you are -- know you are."

It's a pretty big first step but it'll make a world of difference. :P