Hard work

[Afrobean]

Re: Hard work

The first Fullmetal Alchemist anime handles the topic pretty well in the final episodes. All along they preach equivalent exchange, not just as a rule of science, but of life in general. But by the end, they're faced with the truth: sometimes in life, one can pay a hefty price and have nothing of value to show for it. Definitely recommend the show for anyone who hasn't seen it before.

For a real-world example, there are people who work their ass off getting highly specialized post-secondary educations. They put themselves heavily in debt to do it, and apply years of work to get it done. And when they get finally graduate? They can't find work because every where they apply says they're overqualified. Or they end up working in a field unrelated to their studies, doing something they were physically/mentally capable of having done right out of high school. Yeah, plenty of people DO put their college degrees to use when they get to the otherside, but far too often it just doesn't work out that way.

[Izzy]

Re: Hard work

Except the new FMA is garbage. I recommend not watching it and sticking to the original anime.

[Emo_Saur_]

Re: Hard work

In all cases, it's not possible to work out the kinks in ones life.

[MrRubix]

Re: Hard work

I was initially going to reply more indepth to ananana's comment but got lazy, so I'll do it now.

Many homeless people are not homeless because they are necessarily bad people. When you've been brought up in a bad family, you are exposed to neglect, abuse, alcoholism, etc. You may not get a proper education or adequate skillset. If you're homeless, employers are reluctant to hire you. You have no place to properly groom yourself, nor do you have an address or phone for contact, nor do you have Internet access. You don't have basic things like clean clothes or a way to look snazzy. It's hard for such people to know what they have to do to get into living a normal life.

There are plenty of free services/shelters/etc that aim to help the homeless back on their feet, as long as you follow the programs. The problem is that it's too late for many people who have wound up falling into extreme drug dependencies and alcohol abuse, and are otherwise incapable of being helped because they are too downtrodden and mentally beaten-up to help themselves.

I know all this because I'm basically one of those kids -- grew up with very neglectful parents who did not care what I did in terms of education, did not mind if I went without food, punished me for things I didn't do, etc. All my hard work has been aimed to propel me into a better life. People don't understand how *easy* it can be to fall into homelessness without proper parental support, especially in this economy. I can only wonder what things would be like without education. The emotional strain is also immense and very demotivational for such people. If you looked at me in person you'd have no idea what kind of background I came from because I look and act like any other kid my age (with a tinge of shyness that I attribute to overwhelming stress).

Hard work doesn't eliminate all your problems in life. Some things start out sucky and you have to deal with them. Hard work implies you know where to divert that effort/attention to begin with. If you're working hard at something and not getting results, you need to divert elsewhere in your life and make better decisions.

[bmah]

Re: Hard work

The example I'll go into is the US health care system, which was thoroughly discussed on the forums here before. The issue really goes back to Adam Smith's capitalist theory that you earn from the work you do.

The health care debate in the US largely revolves around people not wanting their incomes to be dinged by health care-related taxation. Many believe that their hard-worked money is being "stolen" and provided to medical services for people who "do not deserve" the money they've earned.

When Obama made revolutionary changes to the health care system, I heard a lot of ignorant comments that mirrored what ananana was saying: "Yeah and most of the time it's their fault that they are homeless. Don't care to help someone who doesn't even know how to help them self. Waste of time, money and effort."
On this particular issue, some say that health care should be equitable to other basic needs. If you're taxed for garbage removal and such, shouldn't something as basic as health care be no different? The main issue was that some believed that health care was not a fundamental but rather an accessory.*

Anyways, onto the main point about hard work. Start off with the "bums" on the street. We can say that it was their fault to be on the street because of bad decisions such as drugs, alcoholism, etc. But look a little further. What about their education? What if that person on the street was born in a family that was already divisive and almost certainly imposed a negative influence on the person? Some people just didn't have the education to make better decisions (that may seem obvious to us). When people on the streets do attempt to find a low-income job out of necessity, the payoff is pretty meager and doesn't actually advance the person into the next level. And of course, the person might once again make another crappy decision in his life. Even without a criminal history, a person living off the streets is certainly not going to look good in a resume no matter how you look at it; the odds are against him.

Some of the smarter street people out there actually do become creative and make a living out of a possible interest he/she may have had. The idea to contribute to society though doesn't seem to snap for everyone though. People with intentions not to contribute to society are the ones I don't care about. However, my main point is that a lot of people end up the way they are under unforseen circumstances, and they don't tend to usually have the resources to work their way back up.


*I've heard several people say that they don't need health care, as they, their friends, and their families have all been healthy for years. One shouldn't bet on their current state of resources when they actually do need medical attention. Gamble much? And guess what - circumstances and chance come into play once again.

egad, ninja'd by a ton of people already

[MrRubix]

Re: Hard work

bmah: The problem is that many people don't anticipate their incomes will rise relative to the future incurred costs of the health care. They aren't necessarily looking at the current state of resources -- they just don't think the current state will change much for a number of years, and in the meantime don't want to get hit with massive bills that will not provide worthwhile benefit to them.

[foilman8805]

Re: Hard work

Welcome to corporate dominated capitalism where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.

[scientific]

Re: Hard work

but.... what about the american dream...?

[foilman8805]

Re: Hard work

The dream hasn't died bro, but the reality is entirely different.

[Psychotik]

Re: Hard work

I'd like to quote George Carlin here: "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."

[Syhto]

Re: Hard work

when I read anananas post I assumed she was mocking dragn

[MrGiggles]

Re: Hard work

There was an amazing TED relevant to this subject a while back.

I don't think I'll ever find it again but the gist was "If you graduate college, you will not be poor." And how the speaker has felt all the air go out of auditoriums filled with african-americans when they heard that.

[Vendetta21]

Re: Hard work

i never quite understood what the end-goal of the culture of capitalism was supposed to be beyond aggregating power for the sake of aggregating power

i know there's more there, but i just really can't fathom it

[ananana]

Re: Hard work

when I read anananas post I assumed she was mocking dragn

Thank you.

[Mollocephalus]

Re: Hard work

i like how many times determinism in this thread is hinted without being mentioned.