TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

**X3R0H0UR** · 04-9-2007, 06:52 AM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

i don't think cross dimensional worries are a big deal so finding a way to do that would be pretty good...

game talk: I wanna thank all the humans who talked me out of seering dbp, I as just about to anyway because the thought of a wolf/seer was going to bother me all game, and it did! Damn me for doubting myself.

I didn't seer kilga when we lynched him, humanity and I came up with the plan of using a false seering to get us info, and it was the most logical person to blame. When I found out we hit a wolf, it hit me that DBP had to be a wolf because there had to be a wolf/seer, because of who had survived as long as they did.

On myself: I know I made 3 big important mistakes, 2 things I said, and 1 thing I did, but I'd say I did alright, hopefully everyone agrees.

**DarkManticoreX2** · 04-9-2007, 06:54 AM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

So there was really no rush to replace TPS because he was active, just not in the thread.

Hehe thunder was human

**iggymatrixcounter** · 04-9-2007, 06:59 AM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

So tps was the very first green wolf eh?

I knew disco wouldn't be able to pull it off as a wolf XD.

**DiscoBobbyPARANOiA** · 04-9-2007, 07:53 AM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

Originally posted by iggymatrixcounter

So tps was the very first green wolf eh?

I knew disco wouldn't be able to pull it off as a wolf XD.

No, I did pull it off. I had the rest of the game planned out, and I had the support of the remaining players. Fish decided to change his mind about a few rules right at the end.

This game was complete crap.

I know I'm just disappointed because I couldn't win it for my team (wolves) but there's absolutely no reason that a game setup should not allow a win by the wolves. Here's how it worked:

I already seered tps red. I knew he was the last wolf, and I had it all planned out.

Lynch flaw/stella with the words "One of you is the last wolf/both of you"
Night kill manticore (my kill next)
Lynch the other of flaw/stella saying 'good game see you postgame guys'
then it's me/roundbox/tps going into night. tps either attacks me (guarded) or he attacks roundbox. Either way, we lynch him the next day (due to phantoms I could do it by myself.)
I win as x2 seer, situational tie-breaker clause kicks in and the game moves on. It goes past the lynch and parity hits and I win as wolf.

This was confirmed by fish to work (though it would have gone into super-secret tie breaker) but he decided to tell me like 6 hours later that it only works if x1 wins first. wtf is that ****? So just because I'm the last wolf in x1 means I CANNOT win? Glorious setup.

I'm counting it as a win as a wolf, and not caring what anyone says.

Also, here's my list of lols:
@fish telling me tps was the last wolf
@hans getting in the game
@kilga not really getting seered
@kilga being double wolf and fojar getting wolfed night one (we talked to you about this, right?)
@pnt pretty much saying 'yeah I was a wolf, good job' through pm when he was human.

**FishFishRevolution** · 04-9-2007, 09:20 AM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

Originally posted by DiscoBobbyPARANOiA

This was confirmed by fish to work (though it would have gone into super-secret tie breaker) but he decided to tell me like 6 hours later that it only works if x1 wins first. wtf is that ****? So just because I'm the last wolf in x1 means I CANNOT win? Glorious setup.

Except that tiebreaker clause was implemented to counter the fact that x2 wolves went second. if x2 and x1 wolves have had the same amount of days to win, and x2 has a victory, there's no conflict.

This is the situation where a tiebreaker would happen:
Host: "Okay you guys get 4 days each to win"

X1: K we did it in 3
X2: no wait =(

Host: Okay becuase x2 hasn't had their day 3 yet, and they could plausibly win, let's go into tiebreaker mode.

NOT this:

Host: "Okay you guys get 4 days each to win"

X2: k we did it in 3
X1: wait can i just have one more plz

Host: x1, you both were given the same amount of days to win, if x2 can do it in three, they win.

**DiscoBobbyPARANOiA** · 04-9-2007, 09:24 AM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

Originally posted by FishFishRevolution

Except that tiebreaker clause was implemented to counter the fact that x2 wolves went second. if x2 and x1 wolves have had the same amount of days to win, and x2 has a victory, there's no conflict.

This is the situation where a tiebreaker would happen:
Host: "Okay you guys get 4 days each to win"

X1: K we did it in 3
X2: no wait =(

Host: Okay becuase x2 hasn't had their day 3 yet, and they could plausibly win, let's go into tiebreaker mode.

NOT this:

Host: "Okay you guys get 4 days each to win"

X2: k we did it in 3
X1: wait can i just have one more plz

Host: x1, you both were given the same amount of days to win, if x2 can do it in three, they win.

Regardless of what the tiebreaker was made for there's absolutely no reason I should be unable to win as a wolf while still alive. Hell, you should have just said before the game 'if you lose two of your wolf buddies and there's a successful guard, x1 wolves, you can't win. Might as well stop trying'

I completely understand your rules, and why they are there, but something should have been done. A game being unwinable for a wolf still alive is retarded.

And honestly, if you would have let me go the tiebreaker route like you first said, not a SINGLE person would have brought this up. They would have said 'oh wow yeah he won' not 'well lets look through the rules and find a loophole...'

**DarkManticoreX2** · 04-9-2007, 09:42 AM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

I was getting pretty suspicious of you in the end DBP, But kept my mouth shut. I was actually planning on going "Oh, hey x1 wolves. X2 is gonna win unless you kill DBP the seer or roundbox the guard." In that case I would be able to assure my survival unless one of the two of you were x1 wolves. I was hoping someone would be able to pick up on the fact that if I had died, either DBP or roundbox was the last guarenteed x1 wolf.

In other news, GJ thunder on lynching yourself when we had x2 won two days earlier. It is a bad idea to lynch yourself if you are human.

Oh and LOL at dbp making up like 400 seerings. I think DBP seered everyone like twice in this game.

**Kilgamayan** · 04-9-2007, 10:58 AM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

This game was shit for me right from the beginning and I never recovered. I've never made so many stupid mistakes in my life.

If I were a quitting man, this would definitely be the time to go. I am unabashedly ashamed of my performance.

**FishFishRevolution** · 04-9-2007, 11:12 AM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

Originally posted by DiscoBobbyPARANOiA

Regardless of what the tiebreaker was made for there's absolutely no reason I should be unable to win as a wolf while still alive. Hell, you should have just said before the game 'if you lose two of your wolf buddies and there's a successful guard, x1 wolves, you can't win. Might as well stop trying'

I completely understand your rules, and why they are there, but something should have been done. A game being unwinable for a wolf still alive is retarded.

And honestly, if you would have let me go the tiebreaker route like you first said, not a SINGLE person would have brought this up. They would have said 'oh wow yeah he won' not 'well lets look through the rules and find a loophole...'

Because you're not just a wolf team against a human team. You have to beat the humans in your dimension, while racing against BOTH teams in the other dimension. With one wolf, it's less than likely to be able to do that. I suppose that may be a flaw that needs to be worked out.

**roundbox** · 04-9-2007, 12:02 PM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

Well played by talisman.

I kept second guessing DBP's X1 identity, but I knew since I was guardian in X2 and he was seer in X2, he wouldn't want to wolf me because my role in X1 was simple human, and it'd be the most idiotic thing ever.

btw I guarded DBP X2N1 and he lived. Sweet.

**talisman** · 04-9-2007, 12:04 PM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

yeah dbp, fish is right. If a victory occurs in x2, then it's final. If it occurs in x1 and there's a chance that it could occur in x2 the next day, then it's not.

kilga you weren't that ****ty. I didn't pick up on you until I started playing on the last day I was alive.

Speaking of which, my apologies for not really playing hard until that day. Getting and analyzing convos between people is sort of my main modus operandi, and I didn't really do it until the last day. I feel I probably could have gotten a better hold on the whole thunder/manticore/stella situation sooner if I had.

The other mistake I made was not following up on some things like contacting flaw to make sure that dbp had indeed seered him (as dbp told me he had, when he hadn't).

dbp gave himself away by leaving me alive... I knew he was the only one that would try to control me. this was confirmed when he was unable to produce convos with stoic, and claimed to have only had one.

speaking of which, everyone you ought to save your convos. It makes things much easier for humans if the wolves are forced to lie about who they've talked to or stage convos.

finally,

pntballa and thunder, do not ever admit to being a wolf / vote yourself out of the game if you're human. That could have royally screwed things over in terms of future analysis, especially with regards to pntballa.

overall, this was a good, active game. I hope all you newer players decide to stick with twg because you will make it more fun to play for all of us if you do.

**flawofhumanity** · 04-9-2007, 12:15 PM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

I know I didn't exactly do a whole lot, but, I'd like to get some constructive critisism.

Also, good game. It was pretty fun, and I'd definitely play this setup again at a later time, especially with more/less roles.

**StoicRoivaS** · 04-9-2007, 12:43 PM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

I can see the angle about "number of days" but when in doubt over a custom TWG set-up (read: time travel TWG), I've always found it most useful to think through the semantics of the game (big word, look it up) and make a decision based on how the situation would play out in "real life". It seems to me that we should look at the "wolves transform and slaughter the town scenario". If the humans know the last wolf, in either dimension, they should have their chance to lynch him, and if the wolves are unknown (and still alive, obviously) they should have their chance to outright attack, forcing the game to go one way or the other regardless of day counts. Just my two cents and what I would have done. Good game though. Apparently I can't help but rarely post as a wolf, for future reference. Of course it doesn't help when I have to repeatedly attempt to convince stella that DBP and I aren't wolves together while she's insisting that we clearly are.

If anyone wants to host a game after kilga's, I'd be glad to make a serious attempt at the game I've been thinking through and let them host it. Peace.

**Stella!** · 04-9-2007, 01:44 PM

Re: TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

Just a random side-note and probably nothing I really say will affect things but..

In my opinion, I think DBP took this game solely for himself. (in a good way)

He had a plan, and in either dimension, he was going to win. He had everything worked out and he talked to people well and got the votes to go his way and everything worked out the way he wanted.

Whereas Talisman..

He made accurate guesses. Changed his opinion. And was right about 90% of his guesses.

Talisman did good. Really.

But I sorta don't get why he got MVP too. Especially when DBP did something special to this type of set-up and sorta worked at things more than just, "Hey, he's acting wierd" and whatever.

Just.. my thoughts. >_>

But besides that (and Iggy supposedly leaving) I liked this game.

Except.. I really played it like I'd play any normal TWG set-up I think..

I.. forgot there were dimensions. I didn't notice which dimension we were in or whatever. And I couldn't pin who was a wolf in which dimension.. I was just suspicious of everything/everyone with no regard to either dimension.

But. I still liked it. And I wouldn't mind playing again sometime.

'Kay that's all.

TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

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