Stepmania timing window question

[TheSeventhSign]

In Stepmania, there's an option to change the timing window for Perfects. It's from 1-7 and then Justice, or something along those lines.

What would you say FFR's timing window is in Stepmania terms? The default is 4, and I've only played Stepmania once or twice (I don't know what I think about it yet), but since I'm so used to FFR, I'd like some things to be familiar to me. I just found out the "Note" skin and that makes it a whole lot more playable.

[gnr61]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

Around Judge 3 is equivalent I think to FFR timing. for more exact, open up the preferences.ini file and set the timing windows exactly equal (in seconds) to those of FFR

[TheSeventhSign]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

Odd, some buried FFR instinct told me it would be something more like 3, but I didn't want to make things too easy. Thanks.

I'll definitely check preferences.ini out, but would you happen to know the value in seconds of FFR's timing? If not, I'll stick with timing 3. =)

By the way, for any future insight I may get, I should probably note that I am NOT using Marvelous timing. I think it's dumb. Marvelous is more perfect than Perfect? Nnnnnno.

[silvercomet1525]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

I believe FFR runs at 30 FPS, so that's 1/30, or 0.0333... seconds per frame.

The arrow timing is

Average
Good
Perfect
Perfect
Perfect
Good
Average

So if we take the note to be at the exact center, there's 1.5 frames of perfect at each end. So 1.5x0.0333... = 0.0500 seconds at each side or 0.1 seconds for the whole window. Goods and averages are 1 frame each and so should be 0.0333... seconds each.

So that's 0.100000 sec. for perfects, 0.166666 sec. for goods, and 0.233333 sec. for averages.

Someone correct me if I did something wrong somewhere.

...

I'm such a nerd.

[emerald000]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

The major difference between FFR and SM with these settings is that the goods will break the combo. You can, if you want, fix that by a little cheating:

JudgeWindowSecondsBoo=0.233333
JudgeWindowSecondsGood=0.233333
JudgeWindowSecondsGreat=0.233333
JudgeWindowSecondsMarvelous=0.100000
JudgeWindowSecondsMine=0.166667
JudgeWindowSecondsOK=0.250000
JudgeWindowSecondsPerfect=0.166667

Turn the Marvelous timing and voila!

Note that Marvelouses are FFR perfects, perfects are FFR goods and greats are FFR averages with these settings. Goods and boos are removed.

[TheSeventhSign]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

I believe FFR runs at 30 FPS, so that's 1/30, or 0.0333... seconds per frame.

The arrow timing is

Average
Good
Perfect
Perfect
Perfect
Good
Average

So if we take the note to be at the exact center, there's 1.5 frames of perfect at each end. So 1.5x0.0333... = 0.0500 seconds at each side or 0.1 seconds for the whole window. Goods and averages are 1 frame each and so should be 0.0333... seconds each.

So that's 0.100000 sec. for perfects, 0.166666 sec. for goods, and 0.233333 sec. for averages.

Someone correct me if I did something wrong somewhere.

...

I'm such a nerd.

Again, that FFR instinct told me it was 1/30 of a frame for 3 frames, but the diagram really helped. The thing is, when I put those values in, it was absurdly easy to hit Perfects (and note I am on Judge 4 for timing since it seems to weight everything at 1.000000, which I'm assuming is everything's true value). I tried hard to hit Good and couldn't.

Also, it seems to me like either Average should be 0.200000, or Good should. It seems there's a one frame gap in the math, but I could be wrong, and don't worry about it too much, I get the overall process. =)

The major difference between FFR and SM with these settings is that the goods will break the combo. You can, if you want, fix that by a little cheating:

JudgeWindowSecondsBoo=0.233333
JudgeWindowSecondsGood=0.233333
JudgeWindowSecondsGreat=0.233333
JudgeWindowSecondsMarvelous=0.100000
JudgeWindowSecondsMine=0.166667
JudgeWindowSecondsOK=0.250000
JudgeWindowSecondsPerfect=0.166667

Turn the Marvelous timing and voila!

Note that Marvelouses are FFR perfects, perfects are FFR goods and greats are FFR averages with these settings. Goods and boos are removed.

Okay, so I should assume that Marvelous takes over Perfect since Marvelous is turned off? I'll try it, thanks. But if not, again note that I don't use Marvelous.

[emerald000]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

1 Average
2 Good
3 Perfect
4 Perfect
5 Perfect
6 Good
7 Average

There is a 7 frames gap for the average. 7/30 = 0.233333. Also, I forgot that one line:

JudgeWindowSecondsAttack=0.233333

Should work now.

EDIT: The timing I posted was to make more like FFR. In SM, the goods remove the combo. By moving each ranking up, you remove the need for the goods, and the averages thus make like in FFR. You can still keep the other way though, but you will need that line I posted in here.

[TheSeventhSign]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

Okay, did that stuff, but I'm still able to score a Perfect by hitting before the incoming arrow has even touched the receptor arrow (completely not touching).

I think the problem is that we applied the math of FFR's framerate to Stepmania's. The concept will work, but I think we need to apply that math to Stepmania's framerate in order to get it to work right.

The thing is, I don't think it has a set FPS. It runs 254-256 FPS on my computer while I'm playing the game (I turned on that option where you can see it in the top-right corner).

EDIT: Hmm, looked it up on the Stepmania message board and it seems like there's an option that caps it at the refresh rate of your screen, or something (VSync?). Trying that.

EDIT AGAIN: NO WAY
I could barely hit them at all that way, lol. It was 60 FPS so naturally I halved the values, and as a result I was pretty much pwnd. I'm out of ideas at this point. Thanks for all the input guys. Maybe try it on your systems if you please and see if it's just me.

[emerald000]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

Tried my settings and I was able to get a great out of an aroow in the middle of the screen. Out of ideas here also...

[MixMasterLar]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

Not really on topic, but if you play SM alot on regular 4 or 5, you'll get better at timing and will pwn FFR

I play SM on 7, and it helped my DDR scores alot!

[TheSeventhSign]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

Yeah, probably Lar. Although I'm passed the point where I need to improve my timing. Plus, FFR timing is different. It's like, fake, lol. It's early. I'm too used to it now.

[silvercomet1525]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

Actually, I think I really did think I screwed up. Perfect (or Marvelous) should be 0.050000, not 0.100000. And the others should be 0.116666 and 0.183333. I accidentially counted all 3 frames of the perfects rather than 1.5 if the note was centered on the frames.

Different framerates shouldn't be a problem though. All the frames change are how much finely each second is subdivided into. 0.05 seconds at 30 FPS is the same length as 0.05 seconds at 60 FPS or 256 FPS. The only difference is that 30 FPS will round to each 0.03333 while 60 will go to 0.01667 and 256 to 0.00390 second increments.

JudgeWindowSecondsAttack=0.183333
JudgeWindowSecondsBoo=0.183333
JudgeWindowSecondsGood=0.183333
JudgeWindowSecondsGreat=0.183333
JudgeWindowSecondsMarvelous=0.050000
JudgeWindowSecondsMine=0.116667
JudgeWindowSecondsOK=0.200000
JudgeWindowSecondsPerfect=0.116667

It should work now. Either that or I completely screwed this up.

[TheSeventhSign]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

Ah, so I was overanalyzing the whole FPS thing. ^_^

I'll try those numbers out and move 'em around if it doesn't work exactly right. Thanks again. =)

[Roy Campbell]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

If you want to have better timing in FFR, I highly recommend NOT setting the timing window in SM the same as FFR's timing window. Try playing on judge 6 or 7 with marvelous timing turned on in SM for a while and you'll probably see a huge improvement in your timing. I highly recommend playing both easy and hard songs on judge 6/7. Also, screenshrinking in SM like you do in FFR (if you screenshrink) might help you visually time the arrows in FFR better, just don't follow up on FFR right after trying this as FFR may appear too choppy.

[TheSeventhSign]

Re: Stepmania timing window question

I'm passed the point where I need to improve my timing. Plus, FFR timing is different. It's like, fake, lol. It's early. I'm too used to it now.

Already addressed that one, don't need help with timing, don't need help with playing techniques, I have 206 AAAs, some being CIA Rave, X-Dreamer Final Cut, insert difficulty 9 jack / stream level here. If this was about improving on FFR, I would play FFR, not make a thread about Stepmania timing. I'm used to FFR (as 206 AAAs would imply) and I'd like to keep it that way, thanks for the concern though.

And as far as I can tell, those values actually emulate FFR's timing darn well, silvercomet!