A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

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  • One Winged Angel
    Anime Avatars ( ◜◡^)っ✂╰⋃╯
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Mar 2007
    • 10837

    #1

    A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

    Feedback greatly appreciated.

    As the Hard Songs Batch nears completion, I would like to migrate from the 1-99 difficulty scale to 1-120 in order to expand and create additional breathing space for the upper echelon of files that will queued. In combination with this, I would also like to reinstate the 1-13 title scale, and attribute range AAA token unlocks (Otaku Speedvibe, Scarhand, Derby) to a complete title range.

    A few questions for players:

    I am unsure as to whether or not there is enough of a substantial gap from current 79 (beginning of FGO) to 89 (high FGO, min range for Derby unlocks) in order to reclassify 89 as the start of the 13th title (formerly FSO). Some players I've spoken to believe there is, others (myself included) believe there isn't. FSO is planned to be anything 100+ after the expansion occurs.

    If you agree, let me know. If you disagree, please state where you believe current FSO should begin. I am torn between current 92 (minus AQD, which should move down) and current 93. Ideally I would like to attribute the Derby token to the entire FSO range and nothing more, so if most players agree that 89s are enough of a gap to start the new title at, that would prove optimal. Otherwise, current 89s will probably shift to 95ish with either 92 or 93 becoming the FSO start at 100, and the Derby range will remain at 95+ (kinda shitty for my OCD because I'd prefer no overlap in title ranges but eh). Please let me know which starting point for the 13th title makes most sense to you.

    Current 79 (the starting point for FGO) will shift to 85. Current 66 (the starting point for FMO) will shift to 70. Both will remain the minimum unlock difficulties for Scarhand [Heavy] and Otaku Speedvibe [Oni] respectively.

    Very Challenging and Challenging ranges are what I'm currently toying with, and whether or not Scarhand [Standard] and Otaku Speedvibe [Heavy] should be awarded for AAA'ing any file in those respective ranges. Currently, Scarhand [Standard] is awarded two difficulty points ahead of where the VC range begins, and Otaku Speedvibe [Heavy] is awarded about midway through the C range. I would like feedback as to whether or not players would be alright with extending those unlock ranges slightly downward to the beginning of each title range (for reference, Scarhand currently is awarded for 58-65 and [Heavy] 50-57...after the shift it would look something like 56-65 and 46-55 using the current ranges [and 60-69 and 50-59 after the difficulty expansion]).

    Again, any and all feedback greatly appreciated. If you could touch upon all points discussed that would be great, but I could understand some lower division players not wanting to provide feedback on the high end and perhaps vice versa.
    Last edited by One Winged Angel; 04-6-2016, 03:21 PM.


    Originally posted by ilikexd
    i want to be cucked by cirno
  • Hakulyte
    the Haku
    • Jul 2005
    • 4539

    #2
    Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

    Wouldn't it be easier to work with the 1-99 difficulty range and move down the difficulty of everything to compensate the lack of space for the 89+ ?

    Doing the difficulty for 1900+ songs from zero makes me want to faint because just playing each song once takes literally a month at a pace of 60~80 songs per day.

    I'm just curious of the reasons behind extending 1-99 to 1-120. Afaik, the less difficulties, the easier it is to properly judge them as well because the margin for error become smaller.

    e.g:

    Beginner/Easy/Very Easy: 1-20
    Standard/Tricky: 21-30
    Difficulty/Very Difficulty: 31-40
    Challenging/VC: 41-50
    FMO range: 51-60
    FGO range: 61-70
    FSO range: 71-99

    Of course, you pick the numbers of how you want to make it work.
    Last edited by Hakulyte; 04-6-2016, 03:52 PM.

    Comment

    • One Winged Angel
      Anime Avatars ( ◜◡^)っ✂╰⋃╯
      FFR Simfile Author
      • Mar 2007
      • 10837

      #3
      Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

      We're going to be getting a good handful of songs that are more difficult than RATO.

      The only way to slot them appropriately is to expand. At the moment, RATO and Death Piano are not rated appropriately, they should rightfully extend into the 100s.

      If we were to extend downwards instead, the low end would become incredibly compressed in order to slot the very difficult files appropriately. It's more work this way of course but it will make more sense at the end.

      I also want a somewhat normal distribution of files over the range covered. Most files in the game are in the C-VC range and thus that's an excellent midpoint for the scale. Shifting things downwards would result in the most populated difficulty being slightly ahead of the first third of the range, which is pretty ugly (and would result in a pretty barren upper half compared to an incredibly populated lower half)
      Last edited by One Winged Angel; 04-6-2016, 03:59 PM.


      Originally posted by ilikexd
      i want to be cucked by cirno

      Comment

      • _Zenith_
        Accuracy Player
        • Mar 2011
        • 4629

        #4
        Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

        With charts becoming not only more technically difficult as the skill of the general population of players increases but structurally more unique, the difficulty scale increasing would further provide more accurate ratings.

        The stretching of the spectrum as well would relieve misplaced people on the leaderboards for getting a score on a chart that isn't on par with its rating (This happens more frequently around D2-D4). In other words, the increased scale would put players more accurately to where their skill is.

        FSO should be 100-120 in my opinion as the current 92-99 is where the upper percentile is currently at and those ranges would be stretched if/when the scale increases. 92s would not be stretched above 100 whereas DiS, Husigi, Miku, SoS, and Hetero would be imagined above 100 at the end of the increase (I cannot confirm this but I would believe those charts would definitely make the cut above 100 compared to Unconnected or System Doctor).

        I have more to say but I want to finish what I'm working on before I do so.





        Comment

        • PrawnSkunk
          Administrator
          FFR Simfile Author
          FFR Administrator
          • Dec 2007
          • 3907

          #5
          Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

          This difficulty overhaul will definitely improve the accuracy of leaderboard standings. Since skill rating and levels are difficulty-based, Trumpet and I are planning to release a skill rating algorithm update, which combined with the overhaul will mean lots of shuffling around in ranks.
          Last edited by PrawnSkunk; 04-6-2016, 04:23 PM.

          Comment

          • One Winged Angel
            Anime Avatars ( ◜◡^)っ✂╰⋃╯
            FFR Simfile Author
            • Mar 2007
            • 10837

            #6
            Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

            but listen here u lil shit answer my questions (heidy)


            Originally posted by ilikexd
            i want to be cucked by cirno

            Comment

            • Hakulyte
              the Haku
              • Jul 2005
              • 4539

              #7
              Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

              Well, I agree with that system then. Looks like you're already a little ahead implementation-wise as well with leaderboards. I think you will be able to answer your own questions while working on it tbh.

              Comment

              • RenegadeLucien
                FFR Veteran
                • Jan 2016
                • 283

                #8
                Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

                Is 1-99 for 2k songs REALLY not enough to work with?


                Comment

                • One Winged Angel
                  Anime Avatars ( ◜◡^)っ✂╰⋃╯
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 10837

                  #9
                  Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

                  Originally posted by Hakulyte
                  Well, I agree with that system then. Looks like you're already a little ahead implementation-wise as well with leaderboards. I think you will be able to answer your own questions while working on it tbh.
                  Potentially extending AAA token ranges downwards slightly compromises the skill level needed to have obtained them previously. I would much prefer getting feedback as to why this may be a bad idea now instead of just making the shift and having people complain after the fact (which would be an inevitability).
                  Last edited by One Winged Angel; 04-6-2016, 04:55 PM.


                  Originally posted by ilikexd
                  i want to be cucked by cirno

                  Comment

                  • Gradiant
                    FFR's Resident Trashpanda
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    • Sep 2012
                    • 1097

                    #10
                    Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

                    I think it would depend on how far downwards they were shifted, if it's something like 1-2 points or very close to, I don't think it's a big deal.

                    Comment

                    • rushyrulz
                      Digital Dancing!
                      FFR Simfile Author
                      FFR Music Producer
                      • Feb 2006
                      • 12985

                      #11
                      Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

                      I agree with your assessment of the current 92 being the start of the FSO range in the new system.

                      Also, leave the home run derby requirement where it is for 20 minutes after you release the new system so I can quick go and unlock it. Thanks


                      Comment

                      • Dynam0
                        The Dominator
                        • Sep 2005
                        • 8987

                        #12
                        Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

                        1-999 or bust

                        Comment

                        • Zapmeister
                          FFR Player
                          • Sep 2012
                          • 466

                          #13
                          Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

                          in terms of division placements for tournaments, heavy, scarhand (both) and oni tokens are sort of heavily tied to division placements for d3+, like getting the token has always been sort of the benchmark measure. if you move the unlock requirements down a bit you have to decide whether or not you want to keep it like that (i.e. you'll be moving the division boundaries down a bit too), or whether you want to keep the division boundaries where they are and instead argue that the new-fangled leaderboard thingamabob thingy-thing is enough to determine division placements accurately enough without using those tokens as a yardstick.

                          having thought about it for a bit, i wouldn't be too opposed to moving the division boundaries for d3 and 4 down a bit, since in official tournaments in the recent past, d2 and d5 have always been by far the largest divisions. so if you move unlock requirements down a bit, d3 and d4 get bigger and d2 gets smaller, which evens things out. you still have the problem of what to do with a highly over-inflated d5. incidentally i feel like the d1-d2 boundary could do with a bit of a bump upwards

                          oh and finally: i've read about the phenomenon of grade inflation, which is exactly what it looks like you're doing. here's my prediction: by 2060, it will be considered socially acceptable for humans to use robotic implants in their fingers for video gaming. in light of this, ffr difficulties will have expanded by then to include the full 1-999 scale with vrofl at the top.

                          Theorem: If you have a large enough number of monkeys, and a large enough number of computer keyboards, one of them will sight-read AAA death piano on stealth. And the ffr community will forever worship it. Proof Example

                          ask me anything here

                          mashed FCs: 329

                          r1: 5
                          r2: 4
                          r3: 6
                          r4: 8
                          r5: 3
                          r6: 5
                          r7: 15
                          final position: 4th

                          Comment

                          • andy-o24
                            Married Man
                            • May 2006
                            • 1525

                            #14
                            Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

                            Originally posted by Dynam0
                            1-999 or bust
                            Agreed. VROFL is lonely up there. :(

                            -o24
                            Originally posted by hi19hi19
                            Best strat: enjoy the game, play what you feel like when you feel like it. Don't think about what you are doing or why, enjoy the gameplay, the artistry behind the stepfile, and enjoy the music.

                            When the game isn't fun for you anymore, take a break. It's not a job, nobody here is professional and getting paid to play and force themselves to constantly improve... it's a game.

                            Originally posted by Shashakiro
                            Yeah, FFR is addicting...I don't think I'll get bored with this game unless I somehow become the best at it, which won't happen.

                            Comment

                            • AutotelicBrown
                              Under the scarlet moon
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              • Jan 2014
                              • 923

                              #15
                              Re: A Few Points Concerning Difficulties

                              Expansion proposition seems fine but I think derby range starting at new FSOs (100+) would be more appropriate. Because reasons.

                              1-999 seems good too.
                              Play my files

                              Comment

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