FFR's timing system

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Doug31
    Falcon Paaaauuuunch!!!!!!
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Jun 2004
    • 6811

    #1

    FFR's timing system

    FFR is divided up into 30 frames per second, and every note in every song in the game is rounded to the nearest frame. You have 6 frames to hit a note, like this:

    [Average] (early)
    [Good]
    [Perfect]
    [Perfect]
    [Perfect]
    [Good]
    {Good-miss*} (late)

    *I don't really count a good miss as hitting a note, since it will still break your combo, so try not to hit notes late enough that this happens.

    Now, let's say there is a minijack, so two notes are really close together. If they are 6 or more frames apart, their timing windows do not overlap at all. If they are 5 frames apart, then it's like this. [Note1] [Note2]

    [Average] (early)
    [Good]
    [Perfect]
    [Perfect]
    [Perfect]
    [[Good*]] / [Average]
    [[Average*]] / [Good]
    [Perfect]
    [Perfect]
    [Perfect]
    [Good]
    {Good-miss} (late)

    *If you hit the first note too late, you will hit part of the timing window of the next note, which is covering up the part of the timing window of the first note that I colored red. Even after hitting the second note, you can still potentially hit part of the timing window of the second note, but you will still get a miss on the first note when this happens. Also, where good-miss would normally be will give you an average instead if you've already hit the next note.

    Now, one more frame of the first note's timing window is blocked for every frame closer the two notes are. So, if the notes are 4 frames apart, you are reduced to this:

    [Average] (early)
    [Good]
    [Perfect]
    [Perfect]
    [[Perfect]] / [Average]
    [[Good]] / [Good]
    [[Average]] / [Perfect]
    [Perfect]
    [Perfect]
    [Good]
    [Good-miss] (late)

    This makes things even worse, since you're reduced to only 2 frames to get a perfect on the first note, so many players will try to hit jacks early to avoid hitting the second note and breaking their combo.

    If you thought that was bad, it gets worse. When two notes are only Three frames apart, you are reduced to only one frame for a perfect, like so:

    [Average] (early)
    [Good]
    [Perfect]
    [[Perfect]] / [Average]
    [[Perfect]] / [Good]
    [[Good]] / [Perfect]
    [[Average]] / [Perfect]
    [Perfect]
    [Good]
    [Good-miss] (late)

    It gets even worse than that. Any song that has 2 frame jacks is not AAAable, since the entire timing window to get a perfect on the first note is covered up by the second note, like so:

    [Average] (early)
    [Good]
    [[Perfect]] / [Average]
    [[Perfect]] / [Good]
    [[Perfect]] / [Perfect]
    [[Good]] / [Perfect]
    [[Average]] / [Perfect]
    [Good]
    [Good-miss] (late)

    There is currently only one song with 1 framers, the dreaded crowdpleaser. Any 1 frame jacks are so hard that you only have 1 frame to hit them and keep your combo, and you have to hit them way early and get an average to do so. The wicked timing window of 1 framers looks like this:

    [Average] (early)
    [[Good]] / [Average]
    [[Perfect]] / [Good]
    [[Perfect]] / [Perfect]
    [[Perfect]] / [Perfect]
    [[Good]] / [Perfect]
    [[Average]] / [Good]
    [Good-miss] (late)

    Now, there's still a couple more things. If there are too notes so close together that they are in the same frame, then it seems like a bug. It is then impossible to combo, even though you can hit what looks like one note twice, and get points and combo for both, but it will still give you a miss for it afterwards. This is currently only in the buggy level known as Chrono Trigger.

    Finally, if there are patterns like the jacks in AIM Anthem, or the trills in FotBB, it gets to where each note covers up some of the timing window of the previous note, so it allows for a lot less time to keep your combo going on each note, and potentially very few frames to get a perfect on each note, making songs like AIM Anthem extremely hard to AAA.

    Edit: Here is some more interesting stuff just in case someone asks:

    Q: Why can't you add up the number of perfects, goods, averages and misses when you play through an entire song to get its number of notes?

    A: You can get get good-misses, or the kind of misses where you hit the second note of a jack, then hit the first, and still get a miss on the first. Either one will make the total not add up to the number of notes.

    Q: How fast must a note be in order to not be AAAable?

    A:
    Originally posted by Shashakiro
    Small note: Any jack at over 150 BPM 16ths has a chance of being un-AAA'able. The faster it is, the higher the chance. Jacks at 225 will all be un-AAA'able, and anything above that might be 1-frame and un-good'able. 450 will all be un-good'able. Don't use anything above that, since it might break the game.
    Q: Which songs can't be AAA'd? How what's the best possible score on them?

    A: All of that can be found here: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...ad.php?t=34509

    Q: Are there any songs with, say, 1 frame jacks that you can get a higher score on in any way other than getting an average on the first note, then hitting the second one?

    A: I believe this is only true on songs that have 1 frame jacks at the very end of the song, which there are none of currently. Synesthetic used to be this way, but it was changed because of this.

    Q: Is there any difference between the timing window in single player, compared to multiplayer?

    A:
    Originally posted by Shashakiro
    The receptors in MP are one frame higher than they are in SP.

    Questions? Comments? Screw-ups or ways I can improve this? All is welcome.
    Last edited by Doug31; 02-22-2007, 11:05 PM. Reason: Added more stuff
  • XXXsmittyXXX
    Anxiety monster
    • Jul 2005
    • 6924

    #2
    Re: FFR's timing system

    Seems about right.
    When did you decide to make this?

    Comment

    • GamerShadow
      FFR Player
      • Oct 2005
      • 2534

      #3
      Re: FFR's timing system

      I smell a sticky.

      That explains a lot to me. Especially the crowdpleaser part. Thank you.
      Note to self Finish.

      Comment

      • dore
        caveman pornstar
        FFR Simfile Author
        FFR Music Producer
        • Feb 2006
        • 6317

        #4
        Re: FFR's timing system

        stickyfisher
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREnpHco9mw

        Comment

        • Evascythe
          evascythe
          • Mar 2005
          • 2909

          #5
          Re: FFR's timing system

          does knows the score
          haha nice rhyme evascythe
          but yeah dore is right
          that's two fishing for a sticky posts by doug in like four days now


          Originally posted by moches
          I love your avatar and you seem like a chill dude

          Comment

          • ddr_f4n
            FFR Player
            • Sep 2005
            • 3807

            #6
            Re: FFR's timing system

            I sense a sticky nearby...
            Out Now!


            Older Releases:
            Vocaloid: Project Pad Pack 3rd
            Gpop's Pack of Original Pad Simfiles
            東方幻想踊 (Touhou Gensouyou) ~ Illusionary Dance Fantasy & Vocaloid: Project Pad Pack 2nd

            Comment

            • jimerax
              FFR Simfile Author
              FFR Music Producer
              • Nov 2003
              • 8185

              #7
              Re: FFR's timing system

              I want to know what people think about 4-frame jack.
              They sometimes appear in 8th jacks or 16th streams on an over 180BPM song.

              The point is, they're no problem or shouldn't be used too much for R1 files.

              1-3 frame jacks are obviously bad(3 is still okay with a really good musical reason), 5-frame jacks are okay.
              Last edited by jimerax; 02-19-2007, 08:54 PM.

              Comment

              • Doug31
                Falcon Paaaauuuunch!!!!!!
                FFR Simfile Author
                • Jun 2004
                • 6811

                #8
                Re: FFR's timing system

                Originally posted by XXXsmittyXXX
                Seems about right.
                When did you decide to make this?
                When I became curios myself, so I played songs I knew had jacks to try to find out exactly how they worked, then came here to report my findings.
                Originally posted by GamerShadow
                I smell a sticky.
                That explains a lot to me. Especially the crowdpleaser part. Thank you.
                You're welcome.
                Originally posted by jimerax
                I want to know what people think about 4-frame jack.
                They sometimes appear in 8th jacks or 16th streams on an over 180BPM song.

                The point is, they're no problem or shouldn't be used too much for R1 files.

                1-3 frame jacks are obviously bad(3 is still okay with a really good musical reason), 5-frame jacks are okay.
                I think that if a song is fast enough that that it has 4 or 5 frame jacks, then that's okay, but not pointlessly like on some songs like 100bb. I also agree with your idea about 1-3 frame jacks.

                Comment

                • Tasselfoot
                  Retired BOSS
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 25185

                  #9
                  Re: FFR's timing system

                  if you read the Queue thread... you'll quickly pick up on Shash and my joint hatred of jacks in FFR files. you really need to have a GOOD reason to put them into your file where they may create a 4-frame or less jack.

                  Get Ready 2 Rokk isn't an issue, because a) the jacks fit perfectly... b) they're slow enough that I don't believe there are any 4-frame jacks at all.
                  RIP

                  Comment

                  • Shashakiro
                    TWO THOUZAND COMBO
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 9082

                    #10
                    Re: FFR's timing system

                    there are 4-framers in GR2R...doesn't matter much though.

                    You don't need a GREAT reason for 4-framers (especially if your song is over 180 BPM)...you need a pretty damn good reason for 3-framers, and an absolutely ironclad reason for 2-framers. We probably won't accept 1-framers under any circumstances.
                    4th Official FFR Tournament - Master division champion!

                    Originally posted by Boogiebear
                    use ur bain. Itz there for a reason.

                    Comment

                    • Valtrix
                      What am I doing here?
                      FFR Simfile Author
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 299

                      #11
                      Re: FFR's timing system

                      Hey, I was thinking, since the jack problem comes up because arrows overlap, would the jack problem be partially alleviated if the layering of the arrows were switched? For example, you would still have the six frames to hit the topmost (first) arrow, then any other frames to hit the other ones. Even though it would be hard, it would make even one frame jacks possible to AAA.

                      However, I'm not sure if it would be too hard to code (or if the arrows would look to odd =P), but it's just a thought.

                      Comment

                      • ledwix
                        Giant Pi Operator
                        FFR Simfile Author
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 2878

                        #12
                        Re: FFR's timing system

                        i was wondering about this:

                        apparently, you have 3/30 of a second, or 0.100 seconds, to hit a perfect. this means the timing window is... 0.100 seconds? some people seem to think it's 0.050 seconds, because you have 1.5 frames in front of the arrow and 1.5 frames after the arrow in which a perfect can still be achieved. is the perfect timing window the TOTAL time you have to hit a perfect (ie. 0.100 seconds) or the time difference from the arrow you can have? (ie. 0.050 seconds) anyone follow me?

                        if it's 0.100, then this definition of the timing window would mean that the perfect window in SM is 0.0450, but you'd have to get WITHIN 0.0225 seconds of the arrow to perfect it.
                        Last edited by ledwix; 02-22-2007, 09:18 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Doug31
                          Falcon Paaaauuuunch!!!!!!
                          FFR Simfile Author
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 6811

                          #13
                          Re: FFR's timing system

                          From my experience at SM, I'd refuse to believe it gives less than half the time FFR does to get a perfect, so I'd say you can be within .050 seconds in FFR and within .045 seconds in SM. This would mean a total window of .100 in FFR and .090 in SM.

                          Comment

                          • Jammer325
                            FFR Veteran
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 632

                            #14
                            Re: FFR's timing system

                            nice guide doug.

                            There is one thing though that I think should be in here aswell, I might be wrong though. What is the difference betweem singleplayer and multiplayer frame-wise/timing-wise. If there is any, that is.

                            Comment

                            • Doug31
                              Falcon Paaaauuuunch!!!!!!
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 6811

                              #15
                              Re: FFR's timing system

                              I don't really know much about this, but maybe there is a difference, since shash and tass both say they screenshrink more for MP, and I had no idea why until you brought that up. Could someone explain all this please?

                              Comment

                              Working...