Token Whore

[rushyrulz]

Re: Token Whore

Explain to me without citing the fact others did it how its reasonable to expect people to do 100 requirements, some which require immense mastery of the game, to unlock a meme file that's easy as fuck. There's enough variation to the requirements that it's a simple quality of life change.

That's literally the only reason, and no the requirement should not change.
If any file in-game is to be a masterpiece, it should be a public file. I'd rather have a meme gated behind this requirement than an actually good file that less than 1% of the playerbase will ever get to experience.

Who remembers when Disappearance of Hatsune Miku was gated behind AAAing an FSO?

This change would definitely not be a quality of life change, even loosely speaking. It would completely uproot the current requirement, making it at least 10 to 20 times easier. Sure it's elitism at its finest, but people aren't required to go for these.. it is just a meme file after all

I would guess that most people who went for the token was more about a completionist achievement rather than for the access to the meme file. I am not basing my argument on nostalgia, but rather the nature of the token itself - a completionist achievement.

Preach.

It's time to stop dry humping nostalgia so hard it has third degree burns.

Nostalgia plays no part in this at all. Earn the first 99 chronological skill tokens is the requirement and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Changing it to any 99 just changes a perfectly valid requirement to be easier for no reason at all, as there is nothing wrong with the current requirement.

If you can successfully explain why the current requirement for Token Whore is an unreasonable/malformed/defective/invalid/what-have-you requirement, you have a case. Otherwise, it's kinda like saying change Derby from 95 to 90 because 95 is an old number and it's time for change.

--

My final statement for this post on this topic will be this:
The first 99 tokens require a wide-range of requirements that require a player to have a broad and adaptive skill set. Changing the requirement to any 99 STs does not guarantee this broad skill set (for example, using the any-99 model, a player could get the token having never AAA'd a song). Because of this, I think the token is fine the way it is. Nerfing valid token requirements doesn't help the game (or hurt it, to be clear). Because of this, they should only be changed if their old requirements are no longer achievable because of bugfixes, feature replacements, etc.

[SK8R43]

Re: Token Whore

That's no where in my argument, and it's also not salt. I hate them sure, but I typically cite bad design of the game rather than, "I suck at them, get rid of 'em."

Even on Tier Points it's more from a "something else does it but better" argument.

It's how it should have been from the get-go.

Its not in your argument because you know how retarded of a reason it is. Theres literally nothing wrong with anti skill tokens, they are fun as hell to try to get. The req for token whore is fine. no need to change it.

[MinaciousGrace]

Re: Token Whore

you're all wrong, tokens are inherently retarded in the first place

[XelNya]

Re: Token Whore

Its not in your argument because you know how retarded of a reason it is. Theres literally nothing wrong with anti skill tokens, they are fun as hell to try to get. The req for token whore is fine. no need to change it.

It's not in my argument because it was obviously irrelevant. I left it out because it's as biased argument regardless how strong I think it is. My stance is well known, I don't always regurgitate it.

That's literally the only reason, and no the requirement should not change.
If any file in-game is to be a masterpiece, it should be a public file. I'd rather have a meme gated behind this requirement than an actually good file that less than 1% of the playerbase will ever get to experience.

Who remembers when Disappearance of Hatsune Miku was gated behind AAAing an FSO?

This change would definitely not be a quality of life change, even loosely speaking. It would completely uproot the current requirement, making it at least 10 to 20 times easier. Sure it's elitism at its finest, but people aren't required to go for these.. it is just a meme file after all.

Nostalgia plays no part in this at all. Earn the first 99 chronological skill tokens is the requirement and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Changing it to any 99 just changes a perfectly valid requirement to be easier for no reason at all, as there is nothing wrong with the current requirement.

If you can successfully explain why the current requirement for Token Whore is an unreasonable/malformed/defective/invalid/what-have-you requirement, you have a case. Otherwise, it's kinda like saying change Derby from 95 to 90 because 95 is an old number and it's time for change.

--

My final statement for this post on this topic will be this:
The first 99 tokens require a wide-range of requirements that require a player to have a broad and adaptive skill set. Changing the requirement to any 99 STs does not guarantee this broad skill set (for example, using the any-99 model, a player could get the token having never AAA'd a song). Because of this, I think the token is fine the way it is. Nerfing valid token requirements doesn't help the game (or hurt it, to be clear). Because of this, they should only be changed if their old requirements are no longer achievable because of bugfixes, feature replacements, etc.

1. The best files in the game are subjective. I'd still hold Twister is the best file in the game, or Teni, but TBH I can't enjoy one of those Cosmo files. They're lost on me no matter how goid they are.

2. Your example is a hypocracy. If it was originally gated behind an "FSO" AAA it should have stayed thrre as others to enjoy it had to unlock it first.

3. Quality of life changes uprooting old problems is that it is? See the Fiora rework in League as an example. We also removed Legacy files from ranks, should we have left them to torment players because people like Halogen had to do them for better ranks?

4. The difficulty can be reinterpreted as a tool to set goals rather than making it an ability checklist. Sure I CAN go get 250 averages on this song, or I can go AAA this easy file, or I can go AAA and get Heavy. I'd think the change makes it easier yes. But it doesn't need to be that hard just because it's been done by others in past.

Also, I understand your sentiment in the end of your post, but I'd argue it should have never been what it is in the first place. But I dunno if 100 was intended to be the max so I dunno.

Btw list format was to make it easier to type thru my phone.

[EtienneSM]

Re: Token Whore

damn y'all need to chill lmao

[rushyrulz]

Re: Token Whore

1. The best files in the game are subjective. I'd still hold Twister is the best file in the game, or Teni, but TBH I can't enjoy one of those Cosmo files. They're lost on me no matter how goid they are.

Sure, but it's not purely subjective. There are objective metrics that can be evaluated to determine whether or not a file is "good" on a general scale. Of course people will have preferences, nobody is arguing against that.

2. Your example is a hypocracy. If it was originally gated behind an "FSO" AAA it should have stayed thrre as others to enjoy it had to unlock it first.

No hypocrisy. The token requirement didn't change, the file was just made public because it was enjoyed by the community so much that we demanded it be public instead of gated behind an FSO AAA. Miku is an odd case since it had already been publicly available for about a week before being tokenized. Surely, if that hadn't been the case, it would still be there today.

My point was simply that the game's best content, current example be damned, should not be walled off to the majority of the player base.

3. Quality of life changes uprooting old problems is that it is? See the Fiora rework in League as an example. We also removed Legacy files from ranks, should we have left them to torment players because people like Halogen had to do them for better ranks?

I can't relate to your example since I started League in Season 7, but legacy files were NOT removed from ranks.. unless you mean in the sense that Leaderboards only account for top 15 which made grinding legacy files for avrank meaningless. They were simply removed from default view when playing the game so that new players don't run into lower quality content and get deterred from the game.

4. The difficulty can be reinterpreted as a tool to set goals rather than making it an ability checklist. Sure I CAN go get 250 averages on this song, or I can go AAA this easy file, or I can go AAA and get Heavy. I'd think the change makes it easier yes. But it doesn't need to be that hard just because it's been done by others in past.

You're missing my point. It's not that I'm grasping onto nostalgia and new players should be forced to endure the same hardships as me, it's that there is literally nothing implicitly wrong with the requirement, so it does not need to be changed.

Also, I understand your sentiment in the end of your post, but I'd argue it should have never been what it is in the first place. But I dunno if 100 was intended to be the max so I dunno.

Btw list format was to make it easier to type thru my phone.

Token Whore was probably intended to be the final skill token, but the community wanted more. I think a case could be made for creating a series of Achievement Tokens based around the concept of total tokens earned, and your any-100 requirement would fit well there. --I just can't justify overwriting the Token Whore requirement when it's still attainable by normal means.

[rayword45]

Re: Token Whore

Token Whore is one of the few times I feel like changing the requirements is unnecessary because of, as said by others, the memey nature of the file and the specificity of the 99 tokens (one could replace the five worst tokens to get like Oni or Nainairoeprndjehshewhatever with easier newer tokens). Also, the fact that recent changes in the game don't affect this token at all makes it different from, say, Here We Go, where 90% FC today is still much, MUCH more time consuming than 99% FC was back when it came out (if we still have ~450 songs I'd try for HWG but nowadays? Fuck that)

[SK8R43]

Re: Token Whore

Token Whore is one of the few times I feel like changing the requirements is unnecessary because of, as said by others, the memey nature of the file and the specificity of the 99 tokens (one could replace the five worst tokens to get like Oni or Nainairoeprndjehshewhatever with easier newer tokens). Also, the fact that recent changes in the game don't affect this token at all makes it different from, say, Here We Go, where 90% FC today is still much, MUCH more time consuming than 99% FC was back when it came out (if we still have ~450 songs I'd try for HWG but nowadays? Fuck that)

HWG is 95% fcs, so you can miss about 100ISH and still get it. Which is good since theres ALOT of files in game now that not many people are going to fc non mash. no point to mash since the game isnt combo based anymore haha.
But yeah, definitely a hell of a lot better than 99%, which was insane.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Token Whore

HWG was nerfed because of the leverank conversion from GT to Raw. A brilliant example of a token requirement change that needed to happen.

[SK8R43]

Re: Token Whore

HWG was nerfed because of the leverank conversion from GT to Raw. A brilliant example of a token requirement change that needed to happen.

True, but i think also because a huge amount of harder songs are in game now so it would be extremely difficult to get 99%. I love HWG but will never get it XD

[emulord]

Re: Token Whore

Im sad mashing for HWG isnt an option anymore, that was the only reason I got it haha. Wish they kept it 99% so it'd be more prestigious that I have it XD

[SK8R43]

Re: Token Whore

I'm not. Mashing is so pointless in a rhythm game. The whole point is to get good scores, not randomly hit arrows to FC songs haha. 99% right now would be atrocious

[blindreper1179]

Re: Token Whore

90 is atrocious. Make it 85, ok thanks.

[SK8R43]

Re: Token Whore

90 is atrocious. Make it 85, ok thanks.

Its 95% tho?

[rushyrulz]

Re: Token Whore

95 is the req. attainable by mid-d6 with some dedication. That's always kinda been the goal for that token.