The Simfile Quality Debate

[MarioNintendo]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

Wow. I think you guys are trying to dive deeper than the subject can let you go! I've tried to follow the conversation, but lost track around page 2.

You seem to be looking for the constraints that would make a universally good chart. To me, that's like asking yourself what you need to implement in a song in order to make it succesful. How can anyone know the answer to those questions if it's all based on subjectivity rather than pure reason?

[Reincarnate]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

Wow. I think you guys are trying to dive deeper than the subject can let you go! I've tried to follow the conversation, but lost track around page 2.

You seem to be looking for the constraints that would make a universally good chart. To me, that's like asking yourself what you need to implement in a song in order to make it succesful. How can anyone know the answer to those questions if it's all based on subjectivity rather than pure reason?

Because there are typically a finite number of clustered groups when it comes to segmentation analysis. That makes it much easier to cater to their tastes.

The question can't really proceed until we identify those clusters, because then it's all speculation. Unless of course, we wish to speculate. I think the main clusters would be split between pad and keyboard files, but the subclusters would be harder to define.

Please watch this video so you get a rough idea where I am coming from, because this is how the food industry was transformed and this same logic applies here. I know it's 18 minutes long, but there are a lot of interesting insights in here (mainly in the second half, as the first half is pretty obvious to most of us).

[stargroup100]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

Subclusters are not difficult to define among keyboard charts. If I wanted to take the time I could do a very heavy breakdown. But I won't because I don't see a need for it.

Another misconception is that people keep thinking that we're looking for a universally fun chart. No such chart will probably ever exist, but that doesn't mean you can't come close. The points that I have mentioned simply describe what makes certain works in different mediums popular. The concept of subjectivity and objectivity are simply used to help describe this. In no way am I saying that you can use objective facts about making charts to make the perfect chart that everyone likes.

[SKG_Scintill]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

I love how the commercial at the end is completely against what had just been said

[Reincarnate]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

Subclusters are not difficult to define among keyboard charts. If I wanted to take the time I could do a very heavy breakdown. But I won't because I don't see a need for it.

Another misconception is that people keep thinking that we're looking for a universally fun chart. No such chart will probably ever exist, but that doesn't mean you can't come close. The points that I have mentioned simply describe what makes certain works in different mediums popular. The concept of subjectivity and objectivity are simply used to help describe this. In no way am I saying that you can use objective facts about making charts to make the perfect chart that everyone likes.

The point though is that you probably won't be able to "come close." Preference variance is simply too wide. You can try to please the most amount of people with one chart, but it won't be nearly as optimal as what you could do by making a few charts that cater to completely different tastes.

To this extent, subcluster breakdowns are vital and there is most definitely a need for it. Again, please watch the video if you still disagree.

[stargroup100]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

-___-

I'm not trying to get close to the perfect chart. My point was the quality and subjectivity both exist in chart making, it's not 100% subjective.

[Reincarnate]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

No such chart will probably ever exist, but that doesn't mean you can't come close.

I was responding to this. But more broadly, I'm arguing that you *do* need to identify your clusters if you want a better shot at creating the best set of simfiles.

[Arch0wl]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

You watched that TED Talk too? I've seen Gladwell's talk like, four times. I even bugged my girlfriend into watching it. It's ****ing great.

[Reincarnate]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

Yeah, TED talks are pretty sweet.

Completely random aside about Gladwell irrelevant to this discussion:

I don't know if you've ever read Outliers (cool book by Gladwell, even if broad in generalizations and not very rigorous/academic), but at one point he discusses the effects of luck + hard work etc, and mentions the "Smartest Man In America" -- a man with an IQ over 200 who was held back because of lack of support.

If that alone doesn't ring warning bells, I should add the finishing touch, here: I've actually *debated* him before. He's a religious nutcase who's very ignorant of science, abusive of mathematics, untrained in jargon, unnecessarily verbose, and downright condescending.

[~kitty~]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

Well if the simfile is on sync, then I think it's mostly based on opinion and a person's playing style. I've recently tried changing to spread, and I enjoy different simfiles now due to that change. I don't have a lot to say because I barely even understand the subject at hand, I just wanted to toss in my opinion.

[stargroup100]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

Well if the simfile is on sync, then I think it's mostly based on opinion and a person's playing style. I've recently tried changing to spread, and I enjoy different simfiles now due to that change. I don't have a lot to say because I barely even understand the subject at hand, I just wanted to toss in my opinion.

Good point. This is a completely different issue though. When you change your playing style, you are essentially playing a different game. A pattern feels different between two playstyles, whether it's something minor like switching from index to spread or something major like DDR to Guitar Hero. In the case of different playstyles, it's less of an issue of personal taste and more about how the two playstyles themselves differ from each other.

[Reincarnate]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

Some files are easier to play with certain playstyles over others (FOTBB is loads easier on index, for example, whereas I have no idea how you'd play, say, Pants on index very effectively). I agree that if a file is very biased towards one playstyle, then someone who plays with a different style is going to view your file very differently.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: The Simfile Quality Debate

At this point I am addicted to most anything which has a high level of dissonance while still having an internal logic.