Communism is bad?

[devonin]

Re: Communism is bad?

Name me one communist country. (Tip: There are none)

Let me expand in advance before you come back with a list of the usual suspects: Simply stating that you are a communist country does not actually make you a communist country. China is not a communist country, North Korea is not a communist country, the USSR was not a communist country. The closest we've come to it is Cuba, and even that is not actually a communist country.

[Cherubi]

Re: Communism is bad?

So the debate is really how "communist" a country actually was or is. It's but an ideology that has never been legitimately implemented, am I right?

[devonin]

Re: Communism is bad?

The discussion has changed and evolved a few times over the thread. What communism -is- and what has been done in places claiming to be communist are totally seperate questions. My objections to the OP and similar people suggesting that communism is bad on the grounds of the actions of states like China is to say "That isn't communism" but there are other objections you could lodge about it as an ideology.

[Cherubi]

Re: Communism is bad?

No country has ever successfully implemented an actual communist system, usually always leading to some of the worst human conditions on earth or an oligarchic government where the people have no legitimate power.

I'd debate whether communism would actually succeed or not if it were to actually happen somewhere (the way communism was meant to be on paper that is).

[devonin]

Re: Communism is bad?

It did work, many times, on appropriately small scales all throughout the Hippie movement of the 1960s.

[Cherubi]

Re: Communism is bad?

In small groups or in entire countries?

[fido123]

Re: Communism is bad?

In small groups. Keep in mind it's terribly hard to manage communism over a large group of people.

[devonin]

Re: Communism is bad?

It's actually not that difficult to manage communism over a surprisingly large number of people. The problem (and this is the problem with every purportedly communist state) is that you need only volunteers.

No nation is ever going to be a communist state, because you're going to be -telling- people they are in a communist state, instead of having them come to you because they agree with, and want to follow the tenets of the system.

[Cherubi]

Re: Communism is bad?

In most cases, the more you work the bigger the reward seems to work better to motivate people to contribute. Volunteering for such a large scaled project is sort of improbable at this point.

[fido123]

Re: Communism is bad?

I agree with that. Competition and drive is what drives technology and progress in general. Also I'd rather get paid for what I'm putting it, rather than getting paid for doing a lot, and some guy who does far less gets pay the same.

[Cherubi]

Re: Communism is bad?

I would rather have some of the wealth distributed for services rather than equalizing pay. Our system works fine for that; our salaries depends on personal works and achievements, percentage is taxed for more "social" services if you will. Any working democracy will have elements of capitalism and socialism. They're both needed.

[devonin]

Re: Communism is bad?

On the subject of money being a motivator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

[Cherubi]

Re: Communism is bad?

Omg yes I love that video.

You have to assume though that most of the lower class will be working manual labor.

[fido123]

Re: Communism is bad?

On the subject of money being a motivator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

I agree with the video, but on a large national scale, if you could be a doctor and work hard all day, or a connivance store clerk and get paid the same, you'd end up with a lot less doctors, however I'd think the doctors that would be there would be of much greater quality than your average doctor in a capitalist society. Communism would also take away competition, which pushes advancements in pretty much everything.

[devonin]

Re: Communism is bad?

Anybody who says you get paid "the same" has no understanding of communism.

The argument that someone doing hard work and someone doing no work are treated the same is simply incorrect.

"To each according to their needs" is not even remotely the same as "Equal for everybody in all cases."

A brain surgeon working long, incredibly stressful hours in a specialized field requiring a great deal of time and research keeping up with developing techniques may well -need- several weeks of vacation and relaxation time to continue to function to the best of their ability that someone working 30 or 35 hours a week doing a comparatively low-stress, easy job does not.

Someone working as a stevedore or some other very heavy manual labour job that puts great strains on the body may need free and frequent access to chiropractors and massage therapists that an administrator doesn't.