What happens after we die.

[Ryn2075]

Re: What happens after we die.

@MR. Rubix

I apologize, I think you guys are understanding that I'm trying to disprove evolution by itself. I'm pushing my discussion that the theory of everything being created is logical.

After thinking about it for a second, I realize turning at 70 mph might not be such a great idea. XD Our internal organs would most likely be sloshed around a bit. but MY point is, it hasn't been done, not because they don't want to, but because they CAN'T. Your article you posted clearly states that every attempt to make a wing-flapping aerial device has FAILED. Tell me, why is that? Are scientists incapable, or not intelligent enough to figure it out? Hardly, if other advances in technology are any indication. They haven't done it because they CAN'T. You say we would have no need for such a thing. In the case of the cheetah, I realize you're 100% correct. But in the case of a plane, it's completely logical to make something like that. Not only would it be safer for the environment, but it would most likely be safer overall as there are less problems that can occur midflight, the least of them being that you can't ever run out of fuel.

In a sense, I am trying to disprove evolution by saying creation is LOGICAL, but in essence, I can't, because in the end what I believe is just that: A belief. You are 100% correct in saying that I don't have undeniable, irrefutable facts that point to creation being true instead of evolution, but logically, creation can be argued as a solid theory just as much as evolution, simply because, as I stated, the designs in many of natures more complicated animals cannot be duplicated. And the other point I'm making is, while you say you have mountains of evidence, evolution is STILL not viewed as 100% undeniable, irrefutable fact. I have no problem with you saying you believe it based on the evidence you have, but I DO have an issue with you saying it is factual, because in the end there isn't enough proof to say it IS factual.

Now listen, I don't want you getting the wrong idea guys. I'm not trying to change anyone's thoughts or say that I am undeniably right, I'm just having a simple discussion. I hope you guys understand that, we're all just having a simple disscussion with our various opinions, just like any other topic that could ever be discussed that hasn't been proven as completely true.

By the way, I have a question. What keyboard set-up do you use Mr. Rubix?

~Ryan

[Izzy]

Re: What happens after we die.

I'm referring to fido123. And the bible is 100 percent accurate. Name one thing about the bible being inaccurate?

It's nice to know that you believe women should be stoned to death for minor offenses and should never be allowed to have an ounce of authority.
Also the thing about the earth only being 5000 years old.

[Reach]

Re: What happens after we die.

I don't see how you can view evolution as logical, everything about it; mentally, physically, its more like saying that 'you don't believe in god, but I believe in a magical explosion that created our sophisticated bodies in roughly 5billion years'. Now thats illogical; believe it or not but evolution is a religion in itself. It believes that things occured randomly and without explaination, except that bacteria formed and grew into fish.

So basically what you're saying is you know absolutely nothing about evolution.

I've spent a significant amount of my academic record studying evolution. Don't pretend to know something about it when you can't differentiate between biological evolution and Big Bang Theory/formation of the solar system.

It's just like a house. Do you think a house just appears out of no where? All plumbing, electricity, paint, furnishing, all these things appeared out of no where? Of course not. They all took time. Planning the blue prints, measuring, carpenters, plumbers, electricians. the whole nine yards. The same way is with the earth.

You're cherry picking your examples to make a false analogy.

You conveniently pick a house as your example, which is something you know was built by a human.

The earth was not built by a human. So, why don't you pick something else? Say, a rock. People don't build rocks.

Houses need builders. Rocks need...rockers? And blue prints? Measuring? They're just pieces of solid Earth.

What about rain drops? Rainers? Wait, we have clouds that do that naturally.


Clearly your analogy does not apply to everything. You have no way of logically inferring that the Earth was therefore designed.

By the way, I have a question. What keyboard set-up do you use Mr. Rubix?

No offense intended, but please stay on topic.

[cixOclock]

Re: What happens after we die.

Believe in stoning women to death over minor offenses? That was the old laws where if a woman commited adultery she would be stoned.
Those laws no longer apply, those laws were in place to protect the israelites from stubborn obstinance. Which they failed at miserably.
A woman was only stoned to death for fornication, disrespecting her husband day in and day out without correction.

[MrRubix]

Re: What happens after we die.

I don't see how you can view evolution as logical, everything about it; mentally, physically, its more like saying that 'you don't believe in god, but I believe in a magical explosion that created our sophisticated bodies in roughly 5billion years'. Now thats illogical; believe it or not but evolution is a religion in itself. It believes that things occured randomly and without explaination, except that bacteria formed and grew into fish.

I'm not going to get into this debate with you when you appear largely ignorant of what evolution and natural selection entail. The Big Bang isn't some "magical explosion" people just come up with for the hell of it. It's a concept arrived at through evidence.

And, again, evolution is a NONRANDOM PROCESS and HAS an explanation. You're just assuming it's random because you are misunderstanding what evolution is.

[Silver Sky]

Re: What happens after we die.

It's nice to know that you believe women should be stoned to death for minor offenses and should never be allowed to have an ounce of authority.
Also the thing about the earth only being 5000 years old.

That was back then was when the Old Law was taken into effect. Now there are new laws. And the bible never says how old the earth is. If so? Show me where?

Also, understand that everything in the bible should not be taken into the context of us replicating it. A lot of the bible is also just a history book, so when it says women WERE stoned for this and that, it means just that: WERE. The nation of Israel went around destroying other cities and conquering them. Does that mean we should be doing that today? Of course not! It is simply stating history and guidelines for us today, history that HAS been proven as true, and guidelines that DO help us today.

[cixOclock]

Re: What happens after we die.

Misunderstanding? You clearly say that there is NO god. You've said it countless times, and suddenly I'm the hypocrite for saying its random?

[ogmsband]

Re: What happens after we die.

Yes it is in fact quite logical, considering the latter would be saying a magical man caused a magical explosion that created our sophisticated bodies in roughly 5billion years. Its a much better story. Bacteria to fish could be explained easily through evolutionary adaptation. Say the bacteria isn't where the food is, it is logical to say that it would need to find food. Minute changes through the bacteria leads to bacteria that are more adapted to finding food, they flourish and those less adapted will eventually die out from being out competed. Over millions of years this same process will continue to happen and create even more efficient body forms, means of locomotion, means of ingestion, etc...

[cixOclock]

Re: What happens after we die.

Yes it is in fact quite logical, considering the latter would be saying a magical man caused a magical explosion that created our sophisticated bodies in roughly 5billion years. Its a much better story. Bacteria to fish could be explained easily through evolutionary adaptation. Say the bacteria isn't where the food is, it is logical to say that it would need to find food. Minute changes through the bacteria leads to bacteria that are more adapted to finding food, they flourish and those less adapted will eventually die out from being out competed. Over millions of years this same process will continue to happen and create even more efficient body forms, means of locomotion, means of ingestion, etc...

C'mon, don't get into this again.
The fossils of birds called by scientists Archaeopteryx (or, ancient wing) and Archaeornis (or, ancient bird), though showing teeth and a long vertebrated tail, also show that they were completely feathered, had feet equipped for perching, and had fully developed wings. No intermediate specimens, exhibiting scales developing into feathers or front legs into wings, exist to give any semblance of support to the evolution theory

[Reach]

Re: What happens after we die.

This thread is getting off topic quickly. I also fear those that read my posts don't understand them, so I might not be posting for much longer.

Misunderstanding? You clearly say that there is NO god. You've said it countless times, and suddenly I'm the hypocrite for saying its random?

Evolution is not a random process. God does not need to be present for something to be non-random.

Natural selection for example, one component of evolution, is fundamentally non-random. Genes that are better able to replicate themselves continue to be passed on from generation to generation. Others that are not so able die off.

This is the very definition of non random, because there is a selection process - those that are better at reproducing live on, those that are inferior have a tendency to die off.

If it was random who lives and who dies would be determined by chance.


If you're confused as to what exactly does the selection process, the answer is the environment. The Earth. The Earth determines the path evolution will take by dictating the conditions under which the genes must compete.

[MrRubix]

Re: What happens after we die.

@MR. Rubix

I apologize, I think you guys are understanding that I'm trying to disprove evolution by itself. I'm pushing my discussion that the theory of everything being created is logical.

After thinking about it for a second, I realize turning at 70 mph might not be such a great idea. XD Our internal organs would most likely be sloshed around a bit. but MY point is, it hasn't been done, not because they don't want to, but because they CAN'T. Your article you posted clearly states that every attempt to make a wing-flapping aerial device has FAILED. Tell me, why is that? Are scientists incapable, or not intelligent enough to figure it out? Hardly, if other advances in technology are any indication. They haven't done it because they CAN'T. You say we would have no need for such a thing. In the case of the cheetah, I realize you're 100% correct. But in the case of a plane, it's completely logical to make something like that. Not only would it be safer for the environment, but it would most likely be safer overall as there are less problems that can occur midflight, the least of them being that you can't ever run out of fuel.

In a sense, I am trying to disprove evolution by saying creation is LOGICAL, but in essence, I can't, because in the end what I believe is just that: A belief. You are 100% correct in saying that I don't have undeniable, irrefutable facts that point to creation being true instead of evolution, but logically, creation can be argued as a solid theory just as much as evolution, simply because, as I stated, the designs in many of natures more complicated animals cannot be duplicated. And the other point I'm making is, while you say you have mountains of evidence, evolution is STILL not viewed as 100% undeniable, irrefutable fact. I have no problem with you saying you believe it based on the evidence you have, but I DO have an issue with you saying it is factual, because in the end there isn't enough proof to say it IS factual.

Now listen, I don't want you getting the wrong idea guys. I'm not trying to change anyone's thoughts or say that I am undeniably right, I'm just having a simple discussion. I hope you guys understand that, we're all just having a simple disscussion with our various opinions, just like any other topic that could ever be discussed that hasn't been proven as completely true.

By the way, I have a question. What keyboard set-up do you use Mr. Rubix?

~Ryan

I just explained to you why wing-flapping tends to fail. It's not impossible -- it's just that we have no real practical application to justify it, and it's harder to replicate because of the fine-tuning required. A brain can do these fine-tunings easily, much like how we can fine-tune how we walk. But it's still difficult to create, say, a machine that can literally run. Running is not a purely automatic process -- we're constantly adjusting ourselves all over the place when in motion because of how we respond to a huge variety of stimuli. Making a machine that constantly adjusts itself and can maintain the weight is more difficult, but not impossible.

Creation is logical for things we know are created. We tend to associate creation with complex things because we, as humans, can make complex things. It doesn't mean all things complex were created. Complexity is a huge problem in this sense, but this is precisely what evolution solves. It explains how complexity arrives from simplicity -- all without the need for a creator.

We have all sorts of evidence to substantiate evolutionary processes based on similarities across different animal types and their histories/origins/shared functionalities based on location and environment types/genetics and mutation/fossils/chemistry/physics/etc. We know how certain species have propagated and why others died out. We understand how mutations work and why certain forms are considered more fit than others. We have evidence for how certain complex structures like the eye or wing came about. There's mountains of substantiation to back up evolution and natural selection -- and yet what evidence is there of a God or great Creator? None.

Re: last question, ASKL or DFJK.

[cixOclock]

Re: What happens after we die.

Then you should have no problem making a fleshly body part from scratch. Have fun.

[MrRubix]

Re: What happens after we die.

Misunderstanding? You clearly say that there is NO god. You've said it countless times, and suddenly I'm the hypocrite for saying its random?

Well, yes, because evolution is not random.

I never said "God is impossible." I am saying "I don't believe in a God because a Creator is not necessary to describe anything in our universe."

And it's impossible to ever DISPROVE a God. But by that same logic, we can't disprove Zeus, or Apollo, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Reach's Planet of Blue Hedgehogs Collecting Rings, or the Tooth Fairy, or an alternate dimension where Spider Man 3 wasn't a total disaster of a movie.

We can't disprove things that are by definition unfalsifiable. If you define God as always being outside of science and proof, how can science or proof suggesting a God is not needed ever DISPROVE such a God? There are an infinite number of things we could choose to believe in. The onus is on you to explain why you believe in something. So if I believe in evolution, I should have evidence to support my belief if the pursuit is truth. If you believe in a God, you too should have evidence for it. Evidence, by the way, needs to itself be true and consistent -- justifiable. Simply saying, for example, "I believe in God because humans are damned complex and beautiful" is not sufficient evidence when we have contradictory evidence to show how complexity doesn't require creation.

Of course, many people misinterpret this argument and say "So you can't disprove God! HAH! Look at how faulty you are!" The true point of what I am saying is that when we're looking into the unknown, there are infinitely many things we could say are "possibly true" if we don't know for sure. However, some people would rather arrive at conclusions through evidence and simply say "I don't know yet" to the unknown rather than say "There must be a God" to explain that unknown. Only, in this case, many people use God to refute arguments that actually ARE known and HAVE explanations, further making the issue all the more profoundly ridiculous.

[Ryn2075]

Re: What happens after we die.

@Mr. Rubix

It's nice you believe all your "evidence" Rubix, but why do the scientists who actually study this stuff extensively not believe it wholly themselves? They continue to do research to try and prove it as fact, and yet research is still being done. There are numerous scientists who have been quoted as saying that the theory of a God creating everything is not improbable or impossible, and it's because as they study evolution more and more, more holes pop up.

Also, another thing that you posted way back didn't make any sense. The reproduction process is not genetic mutation. It's as simple as drawing cards from two different decks of cards. You pull genes and hereditary idiosynchrisies(spelled right? XD) from two people, and the end result is a life. Cards aren't drawn from a third deck to alter the genes of that life, it just grows into a human baby.

Everyone is gonna have their perspectives and their opinions. To one person, something might not make sense, while to others, it makes perfect sense. No topic is going to be agreed on by every single person alive, and in the end, discussions about our various opinions ensue. I can tell you right now that, despite all our discussion, you won't change my viewpoint, and you're no slouch in backing your own viewpoint as well, so I know I can't change your mind, but I wasn't trying to in the first place. I suggest we get back to the topic at hand, which is what happens to us after we die, which, I must commend you for your belief. It's totally logical to think that when we die, there is nothing. Scientifically it makes sense, and the bible also says the same thing happens when we die. *shrug*

P.S. - It really sucks that I started index, because ASKL is a wonderful setup, but I'm not used to spread, so it's like I have to get good at the game all over again. D=

[cixOclock]

Re: What happens after we die.

Not once have I read about how you have undeniable evidence that evolution is true.
You keep saying it, but I don't see it, like a dog who wants a treat really badly. I've researched evolution, I understand the mutations and the belief in the weak dying, but devonin deleted my post of what I knew of evolution. So it doesn't much matter.

And quit saying I don't have proof, trusting in the words of kings and presidents never gets anyone anywhere. Its the same with science, the Bible isn't a scientific book, but on the cases it does talk about scientific subjects such as the spherical shape of the earth. And hanging the earth upon nothing in Job.
My evidence is in the bible, and your evidence is in news articles that scientists publish for more money.