What happens after we die.

[XCV]

Re: What happens after we die.

I went to a complete wacko fundamentalist Christian school for primary. In one of the science books, it showed a man being formed from water, with the caption "Spontaneous Generation" and the implication that that was what the evolutionists thought. Obviously not all Christians are that gung-ho. However, personally I never understood why the Judeo-Christian religion cluster was so exclusivist, if you will. The idea of "if you don't like my religion then you deserve eternal torment" doesn't make a lot of sense. If there IS a higher power of humanity that created the human race and is supposed to be perfect, omniscient and what-have-you, then (H)he at least shouldn't be jealous as is mentioned somewhere in there.

I'm agnostic, myself. There probably is some deity, or what we'd call a deity, out there, but they probably didn't have any part in creating the human race. It's simple probability - the universe is big enough to generate an environment that can support highly advanced creatures in at least one place, and probably more. I probably won't ever be atheist because of the way I was raised, but that's just me.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What happens after we die.

I would like to ask where it contradicts itself? Then i could explain to you. because there are many websites that make it look that way when evolutionist like to post all this crap that they don't understand. If evolutionist were so smart at what they know then they could easily answer a series of questions I would have for them. If they could answer them ALL correctly then I would change my beliefs in a heartbeat. But so far a lot of them have failed.

Much of the Bible is demonstrably false if you wish to interpret it as a work of literal truth. If you don't wish to interpret the Bible literally, then why bother taking it as literal truth if you accept it's just an allegory?

If you're going to ask for evidence that the Bible is wrong but then say "Well, God should be allowed to change his mind," then you're outright saying that you're not really willing to accept contradictory evidence if you're just going to respond that way to anything presented.

At any rate, fire away at me with whatever questions you have.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What happens after we die.

Also, a video worth watching (a long talk given by Krauss about cosmology and the nature of our universe -- lots of really interesting points). It's about an hour long, but well worth the watch.

[Reach]

Re: What happens after we die.

Now heres another interesting question, do cats and dogs have an afterlife too?

It is an interesting question to ask: Why would humans have an afterlife but not other animals?

At a fundamental level, many living creatures have brains. Sure, they're not as complex as ours in many cases, but they have brains none the less and experience some level of cognition. And if we agree with modern neuroscience in that our brains = our minds, then why would we travel to a magical place when we die and not other animals?


The standard answer I usually get is similar to Deepak's: that humans, unlike other animals, have a type of mind/body duality in that we have a spirit or non physical self which in turn is part of/controls the physical self, and this allows us to be transported to the afterlife after death and not other animals.


Putting aside the fact there's no evidence for this/it cannot be proven/other assorted holes:

At what point in evolutionary history did living creates get infused with souls/non physical entities and why? At which point was there a significant enough level of cognition to merit a soul and an afterlife and why was it that the sapiens that came before these lucky individuals did not have souls and did not have an opportunity to experience heaven?

That seems pretty damn trivial to me.

I lost consciousness once and it was pitch black and i woke up like an eternity passed.

I had a similar, scary experience once; I fainted and stopped breathing. My mom is a nurse and was there and apparently I was turning blue and had no discernible pulse. She was about to call 911 but I started breathing again on my own.

Anyway, the only thing I remember is my vision starting to blur and tunnel out, and then 'appearing' on the floor looking up. The two events were entirely contiguous. There was nothing in between and no perception of blackness or otherwise. Just literally one event, and then the next. I had no perception or time or existence in between.

It was weird. I expect that when I die the same will happen.

Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised ;D

But really, what is the physiological difference between death and what happened to me other than that in death, the effect is sustained indefinitely? Having something else happen is entirely contingent on the existence of 'souls' and supernatural factors.

(Some people experience trippy dreams when they pass out, but there's a physiological reason for that too).

[devonin]

Re: What happens after we die.

If evolutionist were so smart at what they know then they could easily answer a series of questions I would have for them.

And I had a series of questions starting with a simple one. How was the earth created? I will already know your answers but post them anyways and I will have another

Sadly, question number one has absolutely nothing to do with evolution, or the beliefs of evolutionists. Keep trying though. Also, are you going to submit -your- answers to these questions for analysis, objection and scientific rigor?

[Silver Sky]

Re: What happens after we die.

Much of the Bible is demonstrably false if you wish to interpret it as a work of literal truth. If you don't wish to interpret the Bible literally, then why bother taking it as literal truth if you accept it's just an allegory?

If you're going to ask for evidence that the Bible is wrong but then say "Well, God should be allowed to change his mind," then you're outright saying that you're not really willing to accept contradictory evidence if you're just going to respond that way to anything presented.

At any rate, fire away at me with whatever questions you have.

Consider what I posted before you make assumptions. What I said about God changing his mind made perfect since. Read it again about how Adam and Eve sinned. How the Nephilum (yes I know it's spelled wrong) came about. Humans were given the right to have freedom of choice. That was coming from God's sovereignty. When Satan said that man could rule himself. Which of course they failed to show. God is allowing that to happen. It got out of hand in Noah's time cause of the angels coming down and all the badness that was abounding. He had regret of the choices they were making. Evolutionists like to pick parts from the bible they would like to contradict. For instance it would say: "Paul loves to run." Then another part say: "Paul doesn't like to run fast." You would change it and put Paul hates running since you didn't fully understand it and read the whole thing. It's interesting though cause Evolution is backed by facts right? Biogenesis. Microevolution and so on. All starting from a single cell most of the time. Tell me. Where did the cells come from? They had to form somehow. And then whatever created the cells, what created that? Interesting if you keep going back and back and back. It will come to a point to where you won't have any answers. It will be a simple "Well there studying that right now" And yet they will never get it down to the last wire.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What happens after we die.

Consider what I posted before you make assumptions. What I said about God changing his mind made perfect since. Read it again about how Adam and Eve sinned. How the Nephilum (yes I know it's spelled wrong) came about. Humans were given the right to have freedom of choice. That was coming from God's sovereignty. When Satan said that man could rule himself. Which of course they failed to show. God is allowing that to happen. It got out of hand in Noah's time cause of the angels coming down and all the badness that was abounding. He had regret of the choices they were making. Evolutionists like to pick parts from the bible they would like to contradict. For instance it would say: "Paul loves to run." Then another part say: "Paul doesn't like to run fast." You would change it and put Paul hates running since you didn't fully understand it and read the whole thing. It's interesting though cause Evolution is backed by facts right? Biogenesis. Microevolution and so on. All starting from a single cell most of the time. Tell me. Where did the cells come from? They had to form somehow. And then whatever created the cells, what created that? Interesting if you keep going back and back and back. It will come to a point to where you won't have any answers. It will be a simple "Well there studying that right now" And yet they will never get it down to the last wire.

I'm talking about things in the Bible that make factual claims about our real world that we can easily show did not happen.

You are also basically invoking argument from ignorance -- because nobody may know the answer to something, it is therefore OK to just make up an explanation and call it a day.

At any rate, we know how the Earth formed. We know what kind of events would have had to take place for the first cells to form. We know evolution is a fact. We know the circumstances surrounding the Big Bang. All of these things are supported by mountains of well-established evidence.

BTW, the origin of life is a different question from how that life changes. Evolution addresses how life has changes over time. Something like abiogenesis would describe how life arose from inorganic matter.

Asking "where did everything come from?" is indeed a tough question that nobody knows for absolute certain. Not you. Not me. Not anyone. If you watch the video I just posted, though, you'll see that it is possible to get "something out of nothing" under quantum mechanics. Of course, it's really more like getting something out of something, but the point here is that you either have to accept that existence has always existed, or that existence was able to spontaneously appear out of nothing. The problem is that it doesn't make sense to define what "absolute nothingness" is because even quantum fluctuations are "something."

You don't get any closer by invoking a God. If you're content with saying "God doesn't need an explanation for his existence," then why not say "The universe/the frameworks of existence need no explanation for their existence"? At least the latter has evidence for it! The former has absolutely nothing. Why not save yourself the step?

In other words, why do you *really* believe in a God?

[devonin]

Re: What happens after we die.

They had to form somehow. And then whatever created the cells, what created that? Interesting if you keep going back and back and back.

This raises many objections to many things, but in absolutely no way, shape or form, implies the existance of the Christian God of the Bible.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What happens after we die.

Silver Sky:

Tons of great information here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html

If you actually take the time to read this stuff, you'd see why you'd have a very, very hard time trying to prove evolution false when it's so overwhelmingly and obviously true.

Even *if* you accept evolution as true and simply move the goalposts by saying "Well, God made the Earth, then" -- we can discuss that, too:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-youngearth.html

And a nifty little timeline to help keep things organized: http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/geo_timeline.html

If it comes to the talk about where the first cells actually came from, you can get a good idea for abiogenesis theories here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/

The Origin of Life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg

And if you want to go a step further and say "Okay, so evolution is true, God wasn't needed to explain where the first cells came from, and we know where Earth came from... but then that says nothing about the Big Bang" then check the following out:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html

The Evidence For The Big Bang In 10 Little Minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCkADmNdNo
A Universe From Nothing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

And my favorite video on Youtube:

This video is really more of a statistical piece for me... it really shows you just how large our universe is. When you consider how many stars are contained in a *single* galaxy, and how many possible planets each star can have, and then look at how many galaxies there are (and even then, it's just the amount we're physically able to see!) -- it's overwhelming. This video is comprised from real data, btw.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What happens after we die.

There's a lot to go through, but if you're actually serious about testing your faith against the science, then it helps to actually know the science.

[billymaysheeer]

Re: What happens after we die.

i just can't picture there being nothing.
i may not believe in heaven and hell necessarily, but the concept of just being..gone doesn't sit well with me.
i think there has to be something. maybe not ghosts, maybe not heaven and hell, but something.
personally, i think the idea of reincarnation sounds most likely for some reason.
there being nothing at all after we die doesn't sound likely to me. the thought scares me.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What happens after we die.

Whether or not something is scary or incomprehensible has no bearing on whether or not it's true/false. Quantum mechanics is crazy-hard to grasp and yet its predictive power is unparalleled... without it, much of our modern-day technology would not be here.

[Silver Sky]

Re: What happens after we die.

I'm talking about things in the Bible that make factual claims about our real world that we can easily show did not happen.

You are also basically invoking argument from ignorance -- because nobody may know the answer to something, it is therefore OK to just make up an explanation and call it a day.

At any rate, we know how the Earth formed. We know what kind of events would have had to take place for the first cells to form. We know evolution is a fact. We know the circumstances surrounding the Big Bang. All of these things are supported by mountains of well-established evidence.

BTW, the origin of life is a different question from how that life changes. Evolution addresses how life has changes over time. Something like abiogenesis would describe how life arose from inorganic matter.

Asking "where did everything come from?" is indeed a tough question that nobody knows for absolute certain. Not you. Not me. Not anyone. If you watch the video I just posted, though, you'll see that it is possible to get "something out of nothing" under quantum mechanics. Of course, it's really more like getting something out of something, but the point here is that you either have to accept that existence has always existed, or that existence was able to spontaneously appear out of nothing. The problem is that it doesn't make sense to define what "absolute nothingness" is because even quantum fluctuations are "something."

You don't get any closer by invoking a God. If you're content with saying "God doesn't need an explanation for his existence," then why not say "The universe/the frameworks of existence need no explanation for their existence"? At least the latter has evidence for it! The former has absolutely nothing. Why not save yourself the step?

In other words, why do you *really* believe in a God?

Well you see Rubix. When it comes to the bible I know you and me disagree with many things. Cause what I will tell you, you won't think is true. For instance why I really believe in God. For one all the evidence like I said can't be explained. I know how scientists can go only so far like you said. But I believe in all the evidence around me. All the prophecies the bible has foretold has come true and is right now. But I know you say that wow some man wrote something down and got lucky. I would just have to say that was one lucky guy that got inspired oh by something? Interesting but oh well. I understand when people get deeply entrenched in their beliefs it's hard to talk about it. And yes talking about you and me. Cause I see this going nowhere cause it's evidence against evidence. But apparently my evidence that is real isn't good enough for evolutionists. So that's pretty much where it stands.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What happens after we die.

Okay so you *aren't* going to actually bother with the evidence. Looks like I gave you too much credit when you implied you were open to explanations.

Do you at least acknowledge that there are *plenty* of Biblical prophecies that turned out false? Do you understand that a prophecy isn't a prophecy if it's only right by chance? Do you understand what confirmation bias is?

I could sit here and make 100 predictions about the future. A bunch of them will be wrong, and a bunch of them will be right. That doesn't mean you can just pay attention to what I got right and think I am divinely inspired.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What happens after we die.

Check this out

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

I'll point to some pretty direct ones here:

http://www.goatstar.org/failed-prophecies/