What happens after we die.

[Mollocephalus]

Re: What happens after we die.

What's wrong with that is that what you like or dislike is a direct consequence of your environment. No one should pass over the chance to doubt the inevitable thought automations we all build upon our life. If you just choose to be good with what feels good, you are no more than a thoughtless victim of the social background.

[Mousethecat]

Re: What happens after we die.

Why is christianty always attacked by you atheists?

Why do cats and dogs fight?

Point is, they're two opposite sides of a spectrum. Dispute is going to happen. Nothing will stop that.

[dore]

Re: What happens after we die.

Doing what feels right is what makes us happy, and as long as it causes no harm to anyone else, there is no reason not to.

[cixOclock]

Re: What happens after we die.

Yeah... and your not? You say thoughtless victims, but I can blast that arguement right back in your face.

[Mollocephalus]

Re: What happens after we die.

I'd really like you to do that.

Determinism is what i'm talking about. I could say the same for me, that i am what i am because of the experiences i've had, and the same applies for every other living being. It's important that a tradition of non-traditionalism is shared, so that your choices are not forced by someone else's thought, but guided by analisys. I don't need to explain to you the difference between doing something just following a basic instinct and doing something because all the relevant factors have been scrutinized.

I'm actually talking about inducing via social structures the ability to think for oneself, opposed to socially inducing a set of standard behaviours and ideas that people do not analyze and live by.

[cixOclock]

Re: What happens after we die.

Well alright, just stop being prejudice, christianity isn't something that just popped up in the last one-hundred years, its been around for roughly two thousand years, but even then--belief in a singular god has been the belief of many cultures for thousands of years even before that.
Until you get into ancient Greece or some other religion that sprang up around christianity, like Persia, Egypt, Canaan, on and on.

[Ryn2075]

Re: What happens after we die.

I'd really like you to do that.

Determinism is what i'm talking about. I could say the same for me, that i am what i am because of the experiences i've had, and the same applies for every other living being. It's important that a tradition of non-traditionalism is shared, so that your choices are not forced by someone else's thought, but guided by analisys. I don't need to explain to you the difference between doing something just following a basic instinct and doing something because all the relevant factors have been scrutinized.

I'm actually talking about inducing via social structures the ability to think for oneself, opposed to socially inducing a set of standard behaviours and ideas that people do not analyze and live by.

I can speak only for myself in response to this, but I've said it a couple times before, and I'll say it again. I chose to be what I am, not because of someone else, but because of my own life experiences. I've considered other ways of life that may make me happier and that might make more sense, and I've considered ways of life that would not make me happy and that make absolutely no sense. I certainly am not a tool of thoughtless, social monotony, and the choice I made has been my own through my own informed research. If you think I'm stupid for that, then feel free to think that, but please don't assume that my choice was made without careful consideration.

~Ryan

[Izzy]

Re: What happens after we die.

Is it some kind of fad for christian kids to go around the internet and join random forums just so they can bitch and moan about people not believing what they do?

Some of you guys have less then 30 posts and the majority of them are about religion. Please go away and join a religion forum. Your posts have no critical thought involved and are in no way a contribution to the thread.

Thanks.

[Ryn2075]

Re: What happens after we die.

Izzy, you need to get your facts straight. I never tried to make anyone believe what I do, and I never was upset that you guys don't believe what I do, so stop all your freaking assumptions. It's getting really irritating. I have stated numerous times already that my aim was to state what I believe, not to change anyone's mind.

~Ryan

[devonin]

Re: What happens after we die.

Some things:

1/ Argument from tradition (it's been this way a long time, surely it's right) is a logical fallacy. Just because a religion is old doesn't confer any particular cachet of correctness on it.

2/ If you don't want people to question your beliefs, don't post about them in a critical thinking forum. The PURPOSE of this forum is to debate, discuss and question. If someone questioning your beliefs is "attacking you" to you, you're in the wrong place.

3/ Even implying that someone is being racist or "as bad as" a racist is a -very- significant accusation to throw around. Please make VERY sure you know what you're saying before you apply it to somebody.

[Ryn2075]

Re: What happens after we die.

Actually, those were good points you made devonin.

1. You're right, we have no way of knowing if religion is really correct, but based on my life experiences, I can say that for me it is.

2. As far as posting it here, I've already expressed to Mr. Rubix that I shouldn't have called him out on what he believes to be true without sufficient research. I've done enough research on my own to make my choice, but to counter someone who believes in evolution, I suppose I'm not well-equipped to do that yet. Also, I already stated why I believe what I do, so everyone got their answer. It confuses me why they can't accept that answer. (And yes, that may sound hypocritical based on the arguments in this thread, but like I said I've already accepted that and apologized.)

3. I would never consider you guys racist, just.....discriminatory, but ONLY if you guys breathe down our necks that we should believe what you believe. I don't care if you state what you believe and ask why I believe what I believe, but physically TELLING us what we should believe is showing a little discrimination instead of the healthy spirit ofdiscussion, no?

~Ryan

[devonin]

Re: What happens after we die.

The issue is just that even if you deeply and truly believe in your religion, religions are inherantly faith-based, and if you had actual objective facts to support it (Objective meaning 'things which would necessarily be accepted as fact by all people') then you would be able to provide those facts to us and we would have no choice but to accept them. What you have are personal, subjective experiences that, while -you- know they are fact to YOU, we have no way to actually corroborate them.

Where this gets applied in the thread is when someone says something like "For my given subjective reasons, this is a belief that I feel is very strongly correct" but since it's your own subjective and personal reasons educating your belief, those of us who don't accept your reasons can therefore also not accept your conclusion. While a true conclusion can be potentially arrived at from faulty premises, we still need to produce the same conclusion from valid premises before we know it's actually a true conclusion.

I don't think anybody was telling you what you should believe, so much as telling you that they think you have no justifiable reasons to believe what you DO believe. And as long as you are content to not be able to convince others of the correctness of your position, all you need are the reasons that are good enough for you. But if you -do- want to convince others of the correctness of your position, you'll need reasons that are good enough for -them- as well.

[Ryn2075]

Re: What happens after we die.

And that may be the most non-hostile post I have seen in this entire thread, my own included. Nothing but truth in that post devonin. That's exactly what I was trying to say to them to stop them from getting onto me.

I'm 100% happy with what I believe, and if someone else thinks I don't have a real reason to believe what I believe, then they can think that. Faith has no factual explanation, and in essence it is based purely on subjective, emotional belief. That is good enough for me, and in my mind, what I believe is as real to me as evolution is to you guys. Seriously, I said this like, 50,000 posts ago (albeit probably not as clearly as I did now). How did it get this far into the thread? XD

[Cenright]

Re: What happens after we die.

If you take a Christian point of view, then you are saying that the Bible is your guide, therefore, where better to look than the Bible to back up your views.

"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned - " (Romans 5:12)
"The soul that is sinning - It itself will die. (Ezekiel 18:4)
"For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6)

I believe this should suffice when it comes to scriptures. I do not believe that I instantly go to heaven or hell, or even that my soul lives on after death. If I did, then a resurrection would not be needed, and I DO believe in a resurrection. I will leave resurrection scriptures to another time. I just wanted to clear up the 'living on after death' part.

[perfectchaoslemon]

Re: What happens after we die.

Why do cats and dogs fight?

Point is, they're two opposite sides of a spectrum. Dispute is going to happen. Nothing will stop that.

It's also because there are an equal amount of dumbasses on both sides (i.e. Atheism has Bill Maher, idk what the Christian idiot is, but I'm sure there is one), and then those idiots call everyone on the opposite side idiots, so it's kind of a never-ending battle of idiocy.