Is Science our New God?

[aleco]

people have always been obsessed with proof, but they have never had the technology to proove certain things. now that we do, we have found out many things that we have prooven that contrast the bible, and more and more people are rejecting it.

The big difference between religion and science is this: in religion, you cannot question your greaters or the basic truths given to you; in science, you SHOULD question your greaters and the basic truths to prove their truth, for that is what the entirety of science is (questioning the world around your to find out the truth).

If some martyr had 12 followers make up a bunch of mumbo-jumbo and stick it on the end of a previous religious book, few if any of the people who believed it would examine it closely and look for falseness, but would instead follow it blindly.

If someone came up with a new theory for the universe, everyone (even those who believed it) would examine it closely and look for falseness, and until everyone had proven (as far as any are able to tell) that it is true, then it is still considered an educated guess.

What things have disproved the Bible? What things have been false?
I am one who doesn't take things like that lightly. I have never found anything wrong.

Guess what? NOTHING CAN BE PROVEN! We can't be sure of anything. Anything at all.

Chardish, congrats on being one of the few people who is right.

[User6773]

The big mistake that most of the atheists here are making is claiming that every single belief system is to be equally trusted. They think that some "martyr with 12 followers" constitutes a religion that is on equal ground with religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Islam.

A mistake made by Jamie is the point that all of the different branches of Christianity claim the others are wrong. This is simple ignorance. If 2 branches of Christianity agree on 95% and disagree on the 5%, that doesn't mean they both think the other is "wrong." The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, for example, have only a grocery list of disagreements - most of their differences have to do with church hierarchy.

Third, you'll notice that every religion does not say every other religion is "wrong." Christians and Jews, for example, share most of their beliefs in common!

Don't make it out that there's this massive war of belief among the faithful.

[User6773]

Edit: Triple-post, ouch, sorry.

[DracIV]

Okay, it's painful to read some of this, people. Much of it is wrong.

First of all, SohCahToa (name based off math; odd that you question math), science does not say there are no consequences. If you are greedy or steal or murder, you will suffer consequences in this life. You will go to jail, you will be hated, etc. We have morals and ethics that keep people honorable in this life. Few if any people don't commit crimes because they are religious, they do it because we as a race feel it is wrong.

Second topic, most of the science mentioned is flawed or incomplete.
The body dies because, over time, the caps on the end of our DNA wear away after millions of replications, our bodies suffer wear and tear (arthritis, etc.), certain functions run out of non-renewable supplies (ovaries), our hormones are no longer told to do their jobs (important), and the efficiency of our bodies begins to decrease.
The next error is gravity; gravity is caused by mass, not speed. Without gravity, the spinning of the Earth would throw us off, not keep us on. Gravity has been explained and is moderately well understood. We even have the math to explain and predict it perfectly!
Next, the ozone layer exists. We know it exists because it is right there. We can touch it, we can see it, we even know exactly what it consists of. You can't say it doesn't exist.
Next on the list, the number system itself cannot be wrong. Specific things might be, but irrational numbers aren't. In certain cases, you just flat out cannot split up a number like 7 into 9 equal portions. It just doesn't fit. Pi is the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle. It isn't that hard to understand. It may not fit nicely, but you can't refute it. If the higher stuff confuses you, look at our number system on the simple level. We use base 10 counting. That has absolutely no effect on how many apples are there. The number system can only refer to our way of counting. No matter what, counting is still counting and it can't be wrong. Just count your toes. Are you sure you don't have 72?
Guest, you haven't been to Church recently have you? According to the Bible, there is only one God and everyone else is an idiot for believing in junk. Isn't the equivalent in the 10 Commandments? Also, the stuff about science being unable to explain our minds or the mobius strip is wrong. Math (which you have classified under science) explains very nicely what the mobius strip is. Science can explain why our minds exist and mostly how they work, even though we are still exploring why our minds work how they do and how they exist.
Again Guest, sorry for this rude comment, but you sound like an absolute moron. EVERYTHING has gravity. "0 Gravity Environment" refers to only microgravity. Also, the atmosphere does the equivalent of nothing to us. The only effect it has is friction, which isn't related to gravity. The reason things revolve is that they have enough speed to literally constantly fall past the edge the thing that is holding them in, but not enough speed to escape from their orbit. Also, gravity is either instantaneous or constant, we don't know which because of the conservation of mass. Gravity from stars 50,000,000 lightyears away affect us, just in a very miniscule amount. The point was that the star, even when that far away, would have more of an effect (due to mass) on the two objects than either would have on each other. I don't think you understood anything Jam said. When she said sucked in, she meant into the gravity well of the other object. When she mentioned exposure wearing down your body, it isn't a "cover all answer." She meant that the wear and tear of living, from running to fighting to blood pumping wears down your body slowly. Or in other words, exposure to everything (simplified as just exposure). Oh yeah, and you spelled theorem, basically, conveyed, explanation, general, because, environment, outcome, ignorant, idiotically, athiests, contradicts and revolve wrong. And a little tiny comment: You are so hypocritical that it is painful. We have no right to be rude you say? Then why is every post you make aimed at repeatedly saying the other person is an idiot, a moron, a fool, a liar, and a dimwit? Cease your nonsense! (I hope this doesn't double post)

[DracIV]

Aleco, a quick reply: things in the bible can be proven. We now know as a near-fact that most stories in the Bible are not literal. They are moral stories that were often older myths that were written down by the priests. Example: Noah's Ark.

Chardish: Chistianity, Judaeism, and the (?)Islamic religion all believe in the same god, but they branch off later in history. I'm not sure if it is the Islamic religion that shares the same god, but I know that one major religion from that region of the world does. Anyway, those grouped religions are somewhat exempt because they believe in the seed and disagree on the later outcomes or worship methods. To be more accurate, all monotheistic religions say that those who believe in other gods are wrong and all polytheistic religions believe that the monotheistic ones are wrong. And besides, everyone knows Knishkuggle is the One True God! (j/k)

[VxDx]

It comes down to this. religious folk believe based on ideas that can be neither proven or disproven. the very nature of religion makes it impossible to disprove (a survival tactic that supporters have come up with IMO) and to this date has not been proven nor has any evidence been shown that would even suggest a large probability of truth. people who do not believe are of the opinion that there should be some reason to believe in something, something concrete.

there is absolutely no point in debating whether god exists or not. neither side will win, neither side will convert anybody (plus, what would be the point?) the only time I'll interject anything religious into the discussion is when someone tries to prove religion or attack non-believers (a disclaimer before anyone calls me a hypocrite.

re: math and time's essential non-existance.
math is a system. that is all. irrational numbers exist because our system does not take into account every special case. our system is base 10 because our bodies have 10 digits.
time exists insofar as there is a physical effect that it is defined by. if time didn't exist, then what prompted those who first realized time to make a specific idea to define what "time" is. that time is continuous and not discrete says nothing of it's existance or non-existance.

[fusi0n]

Chardish, congrats on being one of the few people who is right.

thanks for the useless opinion, ass.

[aleco]

Aleco, a quick reply: things in the bible can be proven. We now know as a near-fact that most stories in the Bible are not literal. They are moral stories that were often older myths that were written down by the priests. Example: Noah's Ark.

Whoa, that's a new one.
Tell me how we know this as a near-fact?

Chardish, congrats on being one of the few people who is right.

thanks for the useless opinion, ass.

You are quite welcome.

[Thingy]

Does anyone see the irony that Chardish compared Christianity to "a martyr with 12 followers?"

Many people believe BECAUSE of logic.
If all religion is wrong, and you believe, then you die and thats it.
If your religion is right, and you believe, you get to go to heaven.
If your religion is wrong, and you dont believe, you still die.
If your religion is right, and you dont believe, you are in serious trouble.

So: If you believe, one of two things will happen, dead or heaven.
If you dont, one of two things will happen, dead or hell.

What do you think most people will choose?

I really dont know what my point is, I just disagreed with both sides. lol

[DracIV]

To follow my example of Noah's Arc: we know there was no worldwide flood. There would have been evidence worldwide (duh) in the dirt layers. There is not. There isn't even enough water on our entire planet to even get close to a worldwide flood. You'd need literally solid water pouring in from every single direction at a huge speed to flood the Earth like that. No one could survive it, even if it was possible. We also know that nearly every society has a flood story of some sort that follows that same path. Archaeologists have been able to trace it back to a Sumerian flood story that was totally possible. It involved a mayor of a city who built a large raft boat to clear up his debts by making a major goods transportation, but before it launched a freak storm occured in the dry season that caused a major flood and washed his whole family on the raft down into the Red Sea. They later arrived at an island where they headed back on a major journey of hundreds of miles to home. However, the debtors all needed money after the flood because of damages and he had lost all he had, so he was forced to leave or face death. They went back to the island (we can know which one it is, but I forgot) and set up a kingdom that became a major trading port and was immensely rich. They lived in a tropical paradise trading haven for the last of their years. Since the freak storm was a once in 800 years kind of thing, it was most definately noteworthy and since he was a king of a very rich kingdom his tale in particular was recorded. The story was passed on through the different societies through communication and later recorded by the Jewish priests they *think* as a moral story about what happens when you piss off God. The physical evidence and written story has been found for all this, and later stories even referenced it by name for many centuries before the original was forgotten. Beat that.

[aleco]

All right. You obviously don't know the story of Noah and the ark. If you did, then maybe you could come with a better reply.

[fusi0n]

Does anyone see the irony that Chardish compared Christianity to "a martyr with 12 followers?"

Many people believe BECAUSE of logic.
If all religion is wrong, and you believe, then you die and thats it.
If your religion is right, and you believe, you get to go to heaven.
If your religion is wrong, and you dont believe, you still die.
If your religion is right, and you dont believe, you are in serious trouble.

So: If you believe, one of two things will happen, dead or heaven.
If you dont, one of two things will happen, dead or hell.

What do you think most people will choose?

I really dont know what my point is, I just disagreed with both sides. lol

"lets be a christian so we might be able to go to heaven!"

i'm not christian or anything, but i will have to disagree on your logic.
that's like believing because you are afraid of what might happen to you if you don't believe, which is stupid.

[Privateer]

Doesn't God forgive everyone, anyway? :P Plus, even if you don't believe, if you don't do the things that send you to Hell, there would be no reason for you to still go to Hell, if you don't believe.

[fusi0n]

yes i've also thought about that too. also, i never understood why god would create gay people if it's a sin. gay people don't just choose to be gay, because i'm sure if they could they would be straight since it's easier that way, and accepted by society.

speaking of multiple religions, there was a south park episode i vaguely remember where everyone was in hell, and jesus or someone was like,
"i'm sorry, the answer we were looking for was Hindu."

[DracIV]

Aleco, they have also proved that the ark dimensions are impossible, the number of animals usually accepted is impossible, the number of animals he would have taken wouldn't have fit (according to exactly what he was supposed to bring from the area), the arrival location is impossible, the worldwide flood is impossible, and the length of time was impossible. I'd go with the Sumerian story rather than the Jewish story.

Fusi0n, odd fact: most gay people are gay by genetics, not by choice most of the time, so God [assume he exists] made all the gay people on purpose even though he specifically said that being gay is a sin . . . or did he? Was he the one who said it or did someone else say it in his name? Also, the Church actually used that tactic to get a huge amount of power during the Black Plague and later.