"Time Travel"

[~kitty~]

Re: "Time Travel"

Or we're just already living the reality that is the result of all current and future trips into our past.

Then we find out about all future time travels to the past and detect that they'll arrive somewhere and we shoot them and kill them, then send a person into the future to shoot them again and what then?

We caused a paradox, so I doubt that's going to happen.

Plus the theory that no two entities can exist at the same time in the same place still stands, I believe.

[devonin]

Re: "Time Travel"

Then we find out about all future time travels to the past and detect that they'll arrive somewhere and we shoot them and kill them, then send a person into the future to shoot them again and what then?

We caused a paradox, so I doubt that's going to happen.

Plus the theory that no two entities can exist at the same time in the same place still stands, I believe.

Perhaps you misunderstand? The past that we experienced IS ALREADY THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN MODIFIED BY FUTURE TIME TRAVELLERS. That is, you cannot go back in time and change the timeline, because when you go back in time, what you did has already happened, since it is, after all, in the past. So any changes you were going to make ARE WHAT HAPPENED, and the resulting timeline which is our timeline is completely paradox free.

As for the theory, I think you mean that no -one- entity can exist in the same time and place as itself? Like, I can't go back in time to my own childhood and give myself some winning lottery numbers or something? Even if we grant that as correct, that still doesn't suggest any inability to time travel, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

[~kitty~]

Re: "Time Travel"

Perhaps you misunderstand? The past that we experienced IS ALREADY THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN MODIFIED BY FUTURE TIME TRAVELLERS. That is, you cannot go back in time and change the timeline, because when you go back in time, what you did has already happened, since it is, after all, in the past. So any changes you were going to make ARE WHAT HAPPENED, and the resulting timeline which is our timeline is completely paradox free.

As for the theory, I think you mean that no -one- entity can exist in the same time and place as itself? Like, I can't go back in time to my own childhood and give myself some winning lottery numbers or something? Even if we grant that as correct, that still doesn't suggest any inability to time travel, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

Hmm, I did mean that.

and I guess I did misunderstand, so I do see what you mean now.

I was thinking in a different context. I was a little in a rush with my thinking and sorta slipped on that.

[slipstrike0159]

Re: "Time Travel"

Perhaps you misunderstand? The past that we experienced IS ALREADY THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN MODIFIED BY FUTURE TIME TRAVELLERS. That is, you cannot go back in time and change the timeline, because when you go back in time, what you did has already happened, since it is, after all, in the past. So any changes you were going to make ARE WHAT HAPPENED, and the resulting timeline which is our timeline is completely paradox free.

As for the theory, I think you mean that no -one- entity can exist in the same time and place as itself? Like, I can't go back in time to my own childhood and give myself some winning lottery numbers or something? Even if we grant that as correct, that still doesn't suggest any inability to time travel, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

Technically it all depends on what time the travelers from the -future- decided to go back to. They could have gone back to a period of time that is in the future for us but also that is in the past for them and we just havent realized it yet. Hence my theory of a doomsday event. I believe that with whatever amount of time that we have left in our (as in the earth's or humanity's) future, from the moment the said device is created to the point of its destruction there would be an infinite amount of time for something they do to go wrong. Even if you think of a good natured being going back to change something for the better, it could have many negative repercussions that werent considered. Not necessarily that it will lead to a cataclysmic event, but i believe the likelyhood if it would be very high.

Also, as far as the whole one entity existing in the same time thing, i think its important to realize that considering the matter involved it would just be like seeing a twin. Sure its the same person but the one from the future wouldnt have a huge "omg i looked into your/my eyes and now theres a paradox that ripped apart the space time continuum!" effect on interacting with his/her former self.

[devonin]

Re: "Time Travel"

It doesn't depend on the time travellers from the future going to a certain time or another. From the point of view of our fiction, it is meaningless to consider 'the repercussions' of time travellers travelling to a point which is still in our future, because our future is not a fixed series of events yet.

It is only when you are dealing with people who have travelled to -your- past, does one have to consider 'changing the timeline' in a way that potentially creates a paradox, and my assertion is simply that there can be no paradox because we are already living the results of any and all meddling that was done, or will have been done in our past at any given moment.

Put another way: Like the question of whether or not there is free will, or determinism (The answer to which is "Whether there is free will or not is irellevant because we have an incredibly persistant illusion of free will.") the question of whether or not time travellers to our past have changed the timeline is irellevant because we by necessity are the end product of those changes. If someone could go back and change our current fiction, the changes would cascade up in such a way that we WOULD NEVER POSSIBLY KNOW THERE HAD BEEN A CHANGE, so whether they CAN change things or not is irellevant unless you simply grant that any changes they make ARE what generated our fiction.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Re: "Time Travel"

If going back in time was even possible, someone from the future would be here. It seems as if before we'd ever learn how to do that, we hit extinction since we do not see anyone from the future here unless they have already changed the past before which brings us to today. So either they were before us or not at all because 1. its impossible or 2. humanity will seize to exist before its figured out

Time Travel in my opinion is impossible and ive been following along with this thread, mostly Devonin's post since they are logical to even my understanding. ++

[devonin]

Re: "Time Travel"

If going back in time was even possible, someone from the future would be here.

How do you know they aren't?

[Afrobean]

Re: "Time Travel"

How do you know they aren't?

Probably because if you believe in a correcting time stream like that, a paradox would be unavoidable, and as Doc Brown put it, it would likely destroy the entire Universe.

If backward time travel is possible, it works on a branching system. If the time stream branches at points of backward time travel, it allows for instances of time dopplegangerisms without introducing the idea of a paradox. The future where the time traveler comes from need not exist in that iteration of time, because it DOES exist in another dimension where he came from.

[DarknessXoXLight]

Re: "Time Travel"

Wow dammit.
I was going to post my awesome explination but it looks like devonin has got it under control. xD

[Izzy]

Re: "Time Travel"

Time is just a concept. Not something you can go back in.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Re: "Time Travel"

Time is just a concept. Not something you can go back in.

Exactly, time is a mental aspect.

[devonin]

Re: "Time Travel"

Probably because if you believe in a correcting time stream like that, a paradox would be unavoidable, and as Doc Brown put it, it would likely destroy the entire Universe.

If backward time travel is possible, it works on a branching system. If the time stream branches at points of backward time travel, it allows for instances of time dopplegangerisms without introducing the idea of a paradox. The future where the time traveler comes from need not exist in that iteration of time, because it DOES exist in another dimension where he came from.

Or, as I said, this is already the reality that is a result of all time travel that went into our past. All the changes to the time stream happened, and this is the result. I don't get why that's such a strange line of reasoning to people. Any changes to the timeline of the -traveller- who came from the future are irellevant and not something we need to consider or account for, because the future is not fixed, only the past.

Time is just a concept. Not something you can go back in.

We can already create a situation in which a person's subjective time differs from the subjective time of everyone else. The net effect has been a slight instance of time travelling to the future.

[Afrobean]

Re: "Time Travel"

Or, as I said, this is already the reality that is a result of all time travel that went into our past. All the changes to the time stream happened, and this is the result. I don't get why that's such a strange line of reasoning to people. Any changes to the timeline of the -traveller- who came from the future are irellevant and not something we need to consider or account for, because the future is not fixed, only the past.

Because if the time we have now is the result of the time line correcting itself on every backward time travel, THERE WOULD BE TIME PARADOXES. Did you see Back to the Future? That **** would never play out in reality. Marty would have gone back in time and the paradox would have become completely apparent the moment he saved his father from getting hit by the car. Time wouldn't wait and give Marty a chance to influence things. Furthermore, even if he had succeeded in putting his mother and father together, his interfering in the past would have caused a butterfly effect that would have, in all reality, change the genetic structures of himself and his siblings, to say nothing of the chance that he may have more or less siblings. His alterations to his parents' past could even have affected his younger self to such a degree that he might never have met Doc or might have decided not to go to Twin Pines Mall that fateful night, presenting an entirely different paradox possibility. The movie glosses over these facts because it would make for a very boring and stupid story.

The only chance of a correcting singular time line like you are describing would be for it to be paradox resistant. I think Futurama Bender's Big Score touched on something like this, but if I recall, the Universe just ended up ripping apart at the end anyway. Maybe a better example is the 2002 version of The Time Machine (honestly, it's the only adaptation I've seen). The guy builds a time machine to go back in time to save his fiancée. However, when he goes back in time and saves her, it turns bad anyway and she dies again in a different way, because if she never died in the past, he'd have never built the time machine. The Universe corrected the paradox by making it so that no matter how he influenced the past, she would die an accidental death to be the catalyst for him to build the time machine that would get him there.

Now, take a step back. How could the Universe "know" what to do? I'd have to say that this would only be possible with an all-knowing and all-powerful god who would watch over the time stream, one who can even override our apparent free will to ensure that paradoxes are explained out reasonably without logical contradictions.

We can already create a situation in which a person's subjective time differs from the subjective time of everyone else. The net effect has been a slight instance of time travelling to the future.

If you go at high velocities, time passes more slowly for you. Why then would you expect backward time travel to affect THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE? Isn't it much more likely that in traveling back in time, you'd branch off another path in the 4th dimension by way of the 5th, such that the only one affected by the alternate path through the 4th dimension was you? Again, subjective time dilation affects you rather than the Universe, so why would other variances in subjective time flow affect anything other than just you?

Or do you not buy into the concepts presented by multiple dimensions stacked upon each other? I think it's sort of silly to think that there could only be one instance of our reality that would need to be constantly written and overwritten as changes to history (or even future history) are made.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Re: "Time Travel"

If you go at high velocities, time passes more slowly for you. Why then would you expect backward time travel to affect THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE?

True.
Listen to a song (Monolith)
Listen to m1dy speedcore BS for the next 5 songs
Listen to monolith again

Concentration level effected?? Kinda like slowing down time in a way, but only for your instant, which means in anyone eles perspective your going rly fast. correct?

[Afrobean]

Re: "Time Travel"

True.
Listen to a song (Monolith)
Listen to m1dy speedcore BS for the next 5 songs
Listen to monolith again

Concentration level effected?? Kinda like slowing down time in a way, but only for your instant, which means in anyone eles perspective your going rly fast. correct?

No.

Time dilation is a scientifically measured phenomena. It can be measured by highly accurate clocks. Even without a person on board a high speed vehicle, time dilation could be measured by COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE equipment on board designed to measure time.

Actually... wow. Just thought of something. Time dilation on the Earth as a whole due to the planet's velocity moving through the galaxy. Is that possible or is the effect of it negligible?

Then again, everything is relative and there is no "standing" measurement for anything... even if time was dilated greatly, we'd have no measuring stick that isn't also bound by the same motion that the Earth is on track with through the galaxy.