Ideological Criminals

[Go_Oilers_Go]

I'd like to see what CT's opinion is on how we can better combat criminals that are ideologically motivated. I personally think that the best thing we can do is just always be cognizant of them. I don't feel that laws would be any deterrent to them, especially if they are so motivated in their cause that they are willing to die for it. Forgive the comparison, but that was the only way that Gotham/Batman could fight against the Joker in TDK. The Joker didn't care if he went to prison or even if he died. The best the people could do was always be on the lookout for him. Although it's only a movie, I feel that it demonstrates my point.

So what do you guys think? Are there other ways we can prevent these ideological criminals from running rampant (slight hyperbole)? <_<

[ballaw hare]

Re: Ideological Criminals

Depends on what you define as a crime.

[Go_Oilers_Go]

Re: Ideological Criminals

Depends on what you define as a crime.

I guess I'm primarily thinking of situations that could put fairly large amounts of people at risk.

[Cloud0005]

Re: Ideological Criminals

I guess I'm primarily thinking of situations that could put fairly large amounts of people at risk.

go bombs!

[tsugomaru]

Re: Ideological Criminals

The Joker was a psychopath. Social rules, laws, and deterrents don't affect the thinking of a psychopath. They can pass any lie detector without fail, even if they lie for every single answer they make. When a psychopath wants to do something, they will set out on any path to achieve it and there really is no deterrent to prevent them from doing so. That's what makes them extremely dangerous to society if they ever choose the path of crime

~Tsugomaru

[Go_Oilers_Go]

Re: Ideological Criminals

The Joker was a psychopath. Social rules, laws, and deterrents don't affect the thinking of a psychopath. They can pass any lie detector without fail, even if they lie for every single answer they make. When a psychopath wants to do something, they will set out on any path to achieve it and there really is no deterrent to prevent them from doing so. That's what makes them extremely dangerous to society if they ever choose the path of crime

~Tsugomaru

Point taken. That's why I was suggesting that really the best we can do is try to be as aware and educated about these people as possible.

[rzr]

Re: Ideological Criminals

I don't think there's a huge way we can stop them. In my opinion, all criminals act because of an abusive act on them in their past. So, as cheesy as it sounds, if we could all better the community and act more civily I think it would prevent any of it from happening altogether.

[devonin]

Re: Ideological Criminals

If only sociopathy were entirely social instead of at all genetic, you might have a useful fix in mind there. A chemical imbalance isn't something that lots more hugs are going to fix.

[Go_Oilers_Go]

Re: Ideological Criminals

I agree with Devonin. Also, to make society nicer (crappy word choice), the government would probably have to get involved on a fairly large scale. However, those old farts sitting in their leather-backed chairs truly could care less. We as ordinary civilians can attempt to do our part, but the government would probably have to mass-coordinate something for this to have any affect on society overall. While a more positive environment could potentially reduce crimes of other sorts, I highly doubt it could do anything to deter people who are crazy and essentially kill just for the sake of killing.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Ideological Criminals

It's interesting how quickly this turned to talk of psychological illness. Guys, what about Martin Luther King, or Ghandi, who are considered heroes explicitly because they broke the law for ideological reasons? Why did we pretty much instantly go down the road of violent crime; and why did we then segway so smoothly into discussing the issue not in terms of ideology at all, but in terms of disease?

[dore]

Re: Ideological Criminals

They can't ever be stopped because Western society is too open to effectively do so. Until a governing power takes complete control of our consciousness there will always be a psychopath out there who is willing to take out as many people as he can just to prove a point.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Ideological Criminals

Eastern societies have mind control?

[dore]

Re: Ideological Criminals

All I was implying is that western-style society supports open democracy...

[Frozen Beat]

Re: Ideological Criminals

The Joker was a psychopath. Social rules, laws, and deterrents don't affect the thinking of a psychopath. They can pass any lie detector without fail, even if they lie for every single answer they make. When a psychopath wants to do something, they will set out on any path to achieve it and there really is no deterrent to prevent them from doing so. That's what makes them extremely dangerous to society if they ever choose the path of crime

~Tsugomaru

Yes that's true. Lie detectors detect traces of heart rate speedup and stuff like that. If you can learn to deal with that, you can pass them.

That's why they stopped using them in court.

[Cavernio]

Re: Ideological Criminals

Firstly, I don't think that sociopaths are totally based on genetics. I've never heard of there being any genetic research to that effect in. However, that there is something physically wrong with them such that they can no longer feel empathy, and whatever is physically wrong is something that social interaction can't change, I can buy. However, I still don't believe that this is actually the case for all/most sociopaths.

kilroy: The OP stated that this was about stopping criminals. I can, however, see that if we were to stop ideological criminals outright, then we would probably also stop the good ideologists as well. And freedom.
The definition of most mental illnesses usually involve something like "...and they cannot function in society". It being part of the definition of many mental illnesses, anyone who fits outside the norm of any given social standard could be said to have a mental illness. (This is unfortunate, since it makes being different seem bad.) What is NOT inherent in any mental illness, however, is that it be something that cannot be changed, which is the turn this thread has taken.

The best way to stop ideologists from doing rash, harmful things, is through discussion. Things like forums. Furthermore, teaching critical thinking and open mindedness are crucial in order for discussion to be of use. And then you need a layer or morals upon which should rest the base of always trying benefit people.
Even a sociopath who has no empathy can logically understand that other people have feelings, needs, and desires too, even if they themselves don't feel bad or good when they hurt/help people.
People rely on knowledge rather than feelings all the time in situations. Just for example: A person gets aroused when around kids, and he gets even more aroused at the thought of hurting them. In their life, they will be given opportunities to hurt kids where they will likely not get caught. However, it is unlikely that they would do such a thing, because they know that the child will be hurt, and hurting someone else is bad, because knowing that there exists beings in pain is bad. Their feelings about the situation run counter to what they actually want, yet this person will likely never commit child abuse. If that person can do that, then a sociopath, who has no empathy for other people, can also do that.