Independent thought and parenting

[Corbin Wells]

I am hoping to write a book on this and decided to get some more info before I even think of typing up anything just yet.
Here's the idea: People grow old and die and have kids to take their place and whatnot. The parents job while raising the child is to keep their own beliefs going by teaching their child every belief that the parent has. But here's the question:
When should the parent let go of their teachings and let the child decide for themself? When should the child be granted the right to become an independent thinker? When does the parent no longer have a say in what this child should be? (I know it's a little sloppy right now)

[Mans0n]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

I say a child should be able to decide for him/herself once there about 13, but their parents should only make the big decisions.

[devonin]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

You are never "granted the right" to be an independant thinker. That's a contradiction in terms. You think independantly as soon as you assert your independant thoughts. Parents can attempt to indoctrinate their children with a certain belief set, in fact this happens all the time. Whether it's as simple as the particular moral code for right and wrong that you are taught, or something as deep and important as cultural or religious identity, parents, educators etc can and do try to teach children a certain predesigned value set and thought process system.

However, there comes a time in everybody's life when they are driven to question, and depending on how those questions are answered from those around them, they start to deviate from the track that may be set for them. This manifests in a number of ways, but the usual 12-14 year old issues with authority are one of the primary ways in which boundaries are tested, and children start to fit themselves into their own concieved notions of thought.

In my view, it is a good parent that encourages and fosters an analytical mind prone to questioning things in their children, but many parents acitvely discourage it, mistaking it for a questioning of their parental authority. I mean, this process may take the form of an -actual- questioning of parental authority, but since the actual answer is "Since the law holds me responsible for you, YES I do actually have some authority over you" it all comes down to how the parents decide to deal with their child manifesting independant thinking.

[Corbin Wells]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

Parents can attempt to indoctrinate their children with a certain belief set, in fact this happens all the time. Whether it's as simple as the particular moral code for right and wrong that you are taught, or something as deep and important as cultural or religious identity, parents, educators etc can and do try to teach children a certain predesigned value set and thought process system.

Yes, that's exactly why it's important to look at all of the issues surrounding the growing member of society. They have to deal with the beliefs their parents have, the beliefs of those that openly speak of their religion around them, and those of anyone else who wishes to teach them. It is all of these things this little citizen must be aware of and it's important that a parent encourages the child to ask the questioning and learn from as many people as possible in order to question for him/herself and develop their own ideas of rights and wrongs and what morals to grow up with. But in a constructive way that will allow this person to be content with himself and those around him/her.

In my

view, it is a good parent that encourages and fosters an analytical mind prone to questioning things in their children. It all comes down to how the parents decide to deal with their child manifesting independant thinking.

I totally agree, and it's necessary for a parent to let a child experience things. This is one of the reasons I am against home-schooling.

[devonin]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

important that a parent encourages the child to ask the questioning and learn from as many people as possible in order to question for him/herself and develop their own ideas of rights and wrongs and what morals to grow up with. But in a constructive way that will allow this person to be content with himself and those around him/her.

Much more important than encouraging children to ask these questions is encouraging adults to actually answer them. My mother's yardstick for telling whether we were actually at an intellectual level and level of maturity to understand the actual answer to our questions was whether we were able to actually ask the whole thing, openly, with a straight face and non-euphemistically.

What becomes a problem is that many parents aren't at a place to answer these questions by the time their children are. They don't like to accept that kids start fairly early developing their own opinions about things, and wanting to know why things are the way they are.

Everyone knows the trope of children constantly asking "Why?" and responding to the explanation with "Why?" and frankly that's an incredibly healthy attitude and it pains me to see how little patience for it many adults have.

Further, when you're actually willing to answer fully any question your child can ask you fully, it makes it much easier for them to accept it when there are situations where you -can't- explain the answer fully to them.

I'm a big fan of the Terry Pratchett concept of "Lies-to-children" the sort of pseudo-truths we tell to kids when they ask questions when we know they won't properly understand the answer yet. Telling them that water in the ocean is blue while water in the glass is clear because it reflects the sky is actually not wholly incorrect, and is an answer they will accept and understand well before you could launch into a discussion about wavelengths of light etc. But it is increasingly important as the child grows up to both take them back to previous lies-to-children and fill in the gaps, and also to acknowledge when they are at the point where the proper answer will actually make sense to them.

[Corbin Wells]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

Devonin I love you

[Ruritsu]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

Last paragraph was beautiful devonin...

I had made a pact with myself a while ago to answer all questions posed to by my child. I remember growing up and being told "Because thats how it is" or "because yourn not supposed to" or just plain "because". All that told me was that that there was no reason and that I should simply give up on worring about it. Seeing the same thing happen to the next generation makes me sick...

I just figure that theres not really much I can do about it...

[devonin]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

Devonin I love you

And to think I'm never having children.

[Ruritsu]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

^Any particular reason?

[Zythus]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

Last paragraph was beautiful devonin...

I had made a pact with myself a while ago to answer all questions posed to by my child. I remember growing up and being told "Because thats how it is" or "because yourn not supposed to" or just plain "because". All that told me was that that there was no reason and that I should simply give up on worring about it. Seeing the same thing happen to the next generation makes me sick...

I just figure that theres not really much I can do about it...

I understand that a child needs substantial knowledge to begin to think independently, but answering their question with one's absolute perspective will not produce results and does not promote independence.
Thus, in my opinion, both the "Because thats the way it is" and "because see, this is how you do things(in my perspective)" are not in any way valid to be told to a child, unless universal concepts and factual answers, not one's perception of a topic.

[DDRXTIIDX]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

I understand that a child needs substantial knowledge to begin to think independently, but answering their question with one's absolute perspective will not produce results and does not promote independence.
Thus, in my opinion, both the "Because thats the way it is" and "because see, this is how you do things(in my perspective)" are not in any way valid to be told to a child, unless universal concepts and factual answers, not one's perception of a topic.

Well, I see the one-liners as a sign of exasperation, as having to explain 300 facts to a toddler or even an adolescent is surely very tedious, and it promotes independence, whether it is for self-development of moral code, or learning every other fact on one's own. Then the latter, in my point of view, is probably more acceptable because it will not induce a slight grudge composed of "You didn't teach me this because you're mean" especially in more dependent children. I agree with what you said about the explanation in one's own perspective, and yes, if so, then it should be based on 100% proven fact. But I guess it so happens that many parents use "Just because" and/or "I'm older than you" wryly, and often even worse parents use "BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T, I'LL DUMP YOU INTO THE NEARBY RIVER!!! NOW EAT THAT KIDNEY BEAN CASSEROLE, YOU...!"... well, you don't wanna know.

I say that fully expanding an offspring's boundaries into the wide world is when they're 18-23, while making higher-level decisions than a simple child's should be left unto those of 13 years or above.

As such, my mom thinks my "questioning of decision/right" is a questioning of her authority. Too bad. On a trip to the mall, I simply say that "Of course it didn't hurt when I got squeezed in between two pedicabs, but it probably might've not happened if you just looked back..." and then she squabbles about me being ungrateful blah blah blah etc. Or perhaps I justly explain my side of the story in a certain event, and then she yells at me to just keep quiet whenever elders blah blah blah... and bull$#!+ about respect I don't even need to hear about, not because she is in the wrong, and I mean she probably isn't, but I am in the right, then she decides to do away with it cheaply through her slightly undeserved authority speeches. Slightly, anyway. After all, who got me a SN2 US CS, amirite?

[rzr]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

Well, I was avoiding this thread because it didn't particularly tickel my fancy, but I suppose I'll throw my beliefs out there.

When it comes to adolescants, I, speaking from a first person perspective, do not believe any child above the age of 13 should be forced into schooling, weather it be public, private, home, etc. Now don't misinterpret that, I love school and fully support it. However, children at 13+ tend to be rebellious and do what the opposite of they are told is. Because of this most children detest school and education. But if they were given a choice then it would be their decision and they would be supporting it themselves rather than being forced into it at their most rebellious stage of life. However, when it comes to parenting I think the parent should never teach their child their values. I DO think they should show the child their values, and make the child aware that there are more morals and beliefs out there. But let the child decide for him or herself. Besides, most children tend to idolize people quickly anyway. If the parent just displayed values that impressed the child, the child would follow the path on their own.

@ Ruritsu: I too have made the same promise to myself. My parents are both very sophisticated, nonetheless the majority of my questions are responded with a "ask your [relative subject] teacher." If my child/ren are curious I hope to god I can satisfy that need.

@ devonin: That's a shame, I think you would make a great parent with a great deal of integrity of offer to the next generation; and I think the next generation will really need it.

Did I miss anything?

[Corbin Wells]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

I understand that a child needs substantial knowledge to begin to think independently, but answering their question with one's absolute perspective will not produce results and does not promote independence.
Thus, in my opinion, both the "Because thats the way it is" and "because see, this is how you do things(in my perspective)" are not in any way valid to be told to a child, unless universal concepts and factual answers, not one's perception of a topic.

You're forgetting that a Parent has complete control over what their child should believe in. The concern is finding a true balance between sharing what you want them to follow, and letting them form their own self identity.

[Zythus]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

Indeed, it comes down to the discretion of the parent to induce their child. Yet, "what you want them to follow" should be the 100% factual points of life that is compulsory to achieving a good etiquette in society and living a more refined way. Other than that is their odyssey of pursuing their paths of self identity.

Like DDRXTI's reminiscence, many parents and a great deal of them, love to, consciously or subliminally, flatter themselves with their authority. I myself think that it is quite unfounded and WRONG to discipline a child while having no absolute consideration of the views of the child. "I'm older than you, so I'm right and you should stop complaining and respect me." is a load of spaghetti. Simply put, "I don't show respect to people who don't deserve any"

[OMG its HIM]

Re: Independent thought and parenting

I am hoping to write a book on this and decided to get some more info before I even think of typing up anything just yet.
Here's the idea: People grow old and die and have kids to take their place and whatnot. The parents job while raising the child is to keep their own beliefs going by teaching their child every belief that the parent has. But here's the question:
When should the parent let go of their teachings and let the child decide for themself? When should the child be granted the right to become an independent thinker? When does the parent no longer have a say in what this child should be? (I know it's a little sloppy right now)

when they move out