Hobbes vs. Locke

[hayatewillown]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

I am Hobbesean.
I agree with Hobbes way of thinking.
I believe that to a certain extent, there is a privacy violation, but if it is best for the country, then it might as well be done.
It sounds pretty true that if self-indulgence can provoke war, I mean, thats how some of our wars started right?
Right now All I can say is that Hobbes is cool =D

[boondocks77]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

I am Hobbesean.

Right now All I can say is that Hobbes is cool =D

The day someone chooses a leader or leaders because he/she is 'cool' is the day our world becomes corrupt. Do you pick a student president at a high-school, for example, because he/she is cool? Or because they're well-spoken?

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

What school are you talking about? People pick leaders over asinine things almost as a rule. In fact the probability that a leader will be chosen based on something asinine has actually been shown mathematically to increase as the number of potential leaders to choose from increases. How's that for Democracy?

[boondocks77]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

How's that for Democracy?

You tell me.

[devonin]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

Um...he was asking you, or being rhetorical...take your pick.

[boondocks77]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

Um...he was asking you, or being rhetorical...take your pick.

Either way, I wanted him to answer his own question.

[devonin]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

Clearly his own answer is implicit in the phrasing of the question. He finds the fact that the larger the pool of candidates, the more apt people are to choose one for an arbitrary or asinine reason to be a knock against the system, ironically asking you if you support democracy under that circumstance. Just by using asinine in that sentence, kilroy communicates his dissatisfaction with this statistic.

[hayatewillown]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

The day someone chooses a leader or leaders because he/she is 'cool' is the day our world becomes corrupt. Do you pick a student president at a high-school, for example, because he/she is cool? Or because they're well-spoken?

That high school crap is stupid. By cool, I mean well spoken.
How about that?
I mean, I wish could have I could have voted for president Bush, because he seems like a reasonable responsible man that doesn't brag about how many medals he has on his chest.

Thats how it should be picked. Whatever is best for the people and the country should be done. Even if it's giving certain power to certain groups.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

That high school crap is stupid. By cool, I mean well spoken.
How about that?

Hitler was a profoundly skilled orator. All of his speeches were extremely passionate and brought wild enthusiasm.

I mean, I wish could have I could have voted for president Bush, because he seems like a reasonable responsible man that doesn't brag about how many medals he has on his chest.

Why does he seem like a reasonable responsible man? Why is a lack of an action something worth voting for a person over? Most homeless people don't brag about how many medals they have on their chest either.

Thats how it should be picked. Whatever is best for the people and the country should be done. Even if it's giving certain power to certain groups.

In addition to there being a rather large disconnect between this and previous statements, the question remains what actually is best for the people and the country, and there are fairly strong arguments that giving excessive power to only specific groups isn't it.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

You tell me.

The answer is that it is an example of a dramatic imperfection in Democratic systems, and one which shows at least one of the commonly espoused ideological goals of Democracy to not actually be served by Democracy.

[boondocks77]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

The answer is that it is an example of a dramatic imperfection in Democratic systems, and one which shows at least one of the commonly espoused ideological goals of Democracy to not actually be served by Democracy.

Me and devonin already established that. Scroll up.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

I figured if you were asking me for a response, you meant specifically from me. At this point you should be trying to reconcile this new information with your original claims that Lockean thought is Democratic in nature and that you support Lockean thought. You have several ways to do this. You can

A: Claim Lockean thought is not Democratic in nature
B: Claim you are no longer completely Lockean
C: Claim I am somehow mistaken about the problem I have named.

[boondocks77]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

I figured if you were asking me for a response, you meant specifically from me. At this point you should be trying to reconcile this new information with your original claims that Lockean thought is Democratic in nature and that you support Lockean thought. You have several ways to do this. You can

A: Claim Lockean thought is not Democratic in nature
B: Claim you are no longer completely Lockean
C: Claim I am somehow mistaken about the problem I have named.

Well, in truth, I made this thread because of an assignment at school, and I needed feedback. Now that this assignment is over, this thread is irrelevant.
... unless you would like to continue on a debate with me, then I'm completely up to it.

[hayatewillown]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

Why does he seem like a reasonable responsible man? Why is a lack of an action something worth voting for a person over? Most homeless people don't brag about how many medals they have on their chest either.

Hobbes is trying to present something that can better benefit the country and it's people.

Take a look at this:
Federalism:A system of government in which power is divided between a national (federal) government and various regional governments. As defined by the United States Constitution, federalism is a fundamental aspect of American government, whereby the states are not merely regional representatives of the federal government, but are granted independent powers and responsibilities. With their own legislative branch, executive branch, and judicial branch, states are empowered to pass, enforce, and interpret laws, provided they do not violate the Constitution. This arrangement not only allows state governments to respond directly to the interests of their local populations, but also serves to check the power of the federal government. Whereas the federal government determines foreign policy, with exclusive power to make treaties, declare war, and control imports and exports, the states have exclusive power to ratify the Constitution. Most governmental responsibilities, however, are shared by state and federal governments: both levels are involved in such public policy issues as taxation, business regulation, environmental protection, and civil rights.

Federalist: An advocate of federalism.
Anti-federalist: One of party opposed to a federative government; -- applied particularly to the party which opposed the adoption of the constitution of the United States.

--
It would seem that Hobbes would be a Federalist. It looks as if he is trying to present a government and rights to people.

We seem to be doing fine as far as power in the government.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Hobbes vs. Locke

Well, in truth, I made this thread because of an assignment at school, and I needed feedback. Now that this assignment is over, this thread is irrelevant.
... unless you would like to continue on a debate with me, then I'm completely up to it.

If you don't actually care about something there isn't much meaning to learning about it. I'll leave it up to you whether you want to continue posting on the subject, but bear in mind there's a lot of ground you haven't covered and a lot of fashions in which you could be wrong, including those stated already.