Real musicians

[Dragula219]

Re: Real musicians

Jazz is widely accepted as a type of music because there was a time when it was a favorite among people.

What the hell does "a favorite among people" mean? You mean it's a favorite among people who like Jazz? Because I assure you, there was no time where jazz music was everyones favorite.

If by that you meant what was popular, than your argument is illogical anyway. I assure you African drumming was a lot more popular for a lot longer in Africa than Jazz ever even got close to in America.

On a side note, I am in a military education program, so I have heard military drumming quite extensively. Also, I was regrettably forced to endure the torture that is African drumming by teacher of mine, who was very zealous about African culture and heritage. The entire month of February was spent listening to African music, reading African stories, and studying African authors. I despised the music; it was horrible.

Good thing to know that since you have heard both kinds of music that your musical opinion is now fact. ("OLOLOL GUYS I DESPISE THIS MUSIC LOLOLO IT'S HORRRRRRIBLE NOW, OK?!?!?! LOLOLOL)

But honestly, would you really want to listen to military drumming or African drumming in your free time? Would you have those on your iPod? Is that music you would want to listen to over other types of music equally available? The vast majority of people would say no.

Unfortunately, You're probably right. But great part about it is, just because the "Vast majority" doesn't listen to african drumming does not make it NOT music. The "Vast majority" of people don't listen Crack Rock Steady or Noisecore, but both are still considered music.

Thus, the vast majority is less likely to consider a drummer a musician (elaborated below). Also, there was never a point in American history where drums by themselves were enjoyed by the masses. Folk and classical music gave way to big band, swing, etc.

I suggest you not post after this, as to not embarrass yourself anymore. Ever heard of a steel drum? Didn't think so.

Also see the bold for this statement: "AMERICA ARES THE ONLY ONES THE EVAR MADE MUSIC EVAR!!!"

When I say people are less likely to consider a drummer a musician, I mean that if you ask a person "Which of the following fits your definition of "musician" better? Guitarist or drummer?" they will say a guitarist. The guitarist then becomes the standard, and since a drummer is "less" than a guitarist (in terms of the person's definition), they do not as readily qualify for the title "musician."

I don't know a single person who wouldn't say, "They both fit equally." But then again, I don't usually hang around musically retarded people. Might want to look into that.

Start with a mirror.

However, people like to listen to music that only has one, say, guitar. If you turn on the radio to a station that plays a variety of music, you'll often hear at least one song that's sung by one person and an acoustic guitar. Nothing else. This is why guitarists are more widely accepted as musicians than drummers; drums can't create an appealing type of music by themselves.

APPEALING IS A UNIVERSAL TERM NOW!

Oh.

This is because their pitch variety is severely limited compared to other instruments. The piano has all its keys and the foot pedals, string instruments have a nearly infinite number of pitches (due to the way pitch change on string instruments works), instruments like the flute have many variable pitches based on the position(s) of the fingers, etc. But the drums are limited, pitch-wise, to each individual drum and the cymbals available. The patterns and combinations created with them allow for great diversity, but the number of actual pitches is severely limited when compared to other mainstream instruments. While it can create a lot of combinations of pitches, the other instruments can create a lot MORE pitches, allowing for a more diverse melody. With the drums, rhythm is all you really have: each individual drum or cymbal being hit at a certain point.

Step 1: www.google.com
Step 2: Type in "Steel Drum" (or any of the other hundreds of percussion instruments that produce many different notes).
Step 3: Read.
Step 4: STFU.

You are so ****ing ignorant it's ridiculous. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

[devonin]

Re: Real musicians

And so flaming him bit by bit was a better solution?

How is his subjective definition any less valid than your subjective definition? Both are subjective opinions.

I mean, he falls afoul of a bit of the Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy, for which I asses him -5 points, but -In general- he is speaking of personal preferences, and personal opinions here, which seeing as music so WHOLLY subjective, he's allowed to do, and you're allowed to disagree, but you don't have to do so quite so vehemantly and with so many ad hominem attacks.

[Relambrien]

Re: Real musicians

(cut out for space)

Sorry for the apparent implication that I thought drummers aren't musicians. I'm merely trying to explain -why- some people would be less inclined to believe that a drummer is a musician than people who play other instruments.

I believe I stated in my first post in this thread my belief that drummers -are- in fact musicians, and from that point on I've been trying to show what might cause people to believe otherwise.

Though, now that I've reviewed the thread, it appears I never really did make my position clear. Allow me to do that now.

I believe that drummers are musicians. They create, or help to create, music. Therefore, they are musicians by definition. However, from my experiences, I am able to empathize with those who would believe that drummers are not musicians, and have been trying to show the thought patterns of those with that belief. Call me a devil's advocate if you will.

As such, I bear no ill will for your attacks, as I completely agree with you that drummers are in fact musicians.

My general points thus far have been:

1) American people are less inclined to believe that drummers alone are musicians, as opposed to those who play other instruments alone.
2) Mainstream drums (what someone thinks of when you say "drum") are limited in their pitch variety in comparison to other instruments (keyword: in comparison), which could possibly contribute to the above statement.
3) In response to the argument about jazz, I stated (or meant to, perhaps it didn't come across clearly) that at one point, jazz was a very popular style of music in America. Thus, American people are likely to consider jazz music. However, American history has not shown a time when solo drumming has been very popular, possibly contributing to statement #1.

I think that about covers everything for my general stance, now to respond to your points.

What the hell does "a favorite among people" mean? You mean it's a favorite among people who like Jazz? Because I assure you, there was no time where jazz music was everyones favorite.

If by that you meant what was popular, than your argument is illogical anyway. I assure you African drumming was a lot more popular for a lot longer in Africa than Jazz ever even got close to in America.

You misunderstood me. I was referring to America the whole time, because that was the apparent context to which the OP referred. Due to the incredibly different musical tastes around the world, I had to choose a specific culture or region and act based on that region, or else all I could say would be "Musical taste varies so much, almost anything is a musician somewhere." I chose America. But you're right, I meant "what was popular," I don't know why I wrote "a favorite among people."

Good thing to know that since you have heard both kinds of music that your musical opinion is now fact. ("OLOLOL GUYS I DESPISE THIS MUSIC LOLOLO IT'S HORRRRRRIBLE NOW, OK?!?!?! LOLOLOL)

How did that part of my post imply that I was trying to state my opinion as fact? I most certainly wasn't.

Unfortunately, You're probably right. But great part about it is, just because the "Vast majority" doesn't listen to african drumming does not make it NOT music. The "Vast majority" of people don't listen Crack Rock Steady or Noisecore, but both are still considered music.

Ask a person who hates rap if it's music, and they'll say "no." That's what I'm trying to get at here. People who don't like a genre are less likely to consider that genre a part of the overall subject. (Calm down, remember, I'm just trying to explain the thought process for people who don't consider drummers musicians)

I suggest you not post after this, as to not embarrass yourself anymore. Ever heard of a steel drum? Didn't think so.

Also see the bold for this statement: "AMERICA ARES THE ONLY ONES THE EVAR MADE MUSIC EVAR!!!"

I don't know why, but I fail to see how a steel drum is relevant to that particular part of my post. So I can't respond to that. And once again, I established the context as American, simply because there's nothing to argue if you try to use the entire world.

I don't know a single person who wouldn't say, "They both fit equally." But then again, I don't usually hang around musically retarded people. Might want to look into that.
Start with a mirror.

Obviously, when you ask someone that, they're going to say "They both fit equally" after a bit of thought. But their first impulse, before any thought? I would expect it to lean towards the guitarist. That's what I was trying to say.

Also, I won't say anything about that particular attack (as I stated above, I can understand your feelings and don't blame you for it), but as a forewarning, anything more like that and you'll have difficulty in CT. Attacks like that are not exactly encouraged here.

Oh.

Once again, a matter of opinion which I thought was obvious. Maybe it wasn't.

Step 1: www.google.com
Step 2: Type in "Steel Drum" (or any of the other hundreds of percussion instruments that produce many different notes).
Step 3: Read.
Step 4: STFU.

Look at this quote from the Wikipedia article on the "steelpan," the proper name for "steel drum."

It may have almost all of the "skirt" (the cylindrical part of the oil drum) cut off and around 30 soprano-range notes. It may use the entire drum with only 3 bass notes per pan, in which case one person may play 6 such pans.

Around 30 soprano-range notes? String instruments, due to the way the sound is formed, have an infinite range of notes. Notice what I said about limited in comparison to other instruments. That's not to say that drums have a shortage of available pitches; only that there are many fewer that you can play on drums than on a string instrument.

Oh, and this made me laugh:

The steel drum is correctly called a steelpan or pan as it falls into the Idiophone family of instruments, and is not technically regarded as a drum or Membranophone.

So not only did you get the name wrong, but it's not even technically a drum? I find that somewhat ironic.