Islam and terrorism

[TheWired724]

Re: Islam and terrorism

you don't know anythin about the Qur'an, I guarantee u havn't read it an if u had I guarantee u don't know the translation in to english so anythin u say about what the Qur'an teaches is false ur just usin some one elses opinion... check out doctor Z on youtube.... unlike u hes read and studied both the Qur'an and the bible and knows word for word from each...
P.S. Dr. Z tears the bible apart in comparison to the Qur'an and has even challanged some bible experts to a debate but theynever except

And i guarantee Dr. Z doesn't know what he's talking about. I have read the Qur'an, but that's not sufficient. The Qur'an is jibberish as it lacks both context and chronology. This is why one also needs the Hadith, the only source that makes the Qur'an understandable. I bet you've never read any of the Hadith accounts of Bukhari or Muslim. What Ishaq's ''Sirat Rasul Allah'' or Tabari's ''Ta'ryik''? These are Islam's earliest sources.

[randomdragoon]

Re: Islam and terrorism

Scriptures like the Qur'an and the Bible are sufficiently long in that one can get them to say anything they want by interpreting specific passages in the way that they feel like. People can argue all they want about them, but in the end it's just the simple fact that they're way too long for any universally clear message to get through. It would have been nice if the Bible solely consisted of the Commandments and that was it (end of all Bible debates, yay!) but too bad, it's not.

On that note, I have many Muslim friends who are quite peaceful (well, except for one ... but I attribute that not to Islam but to his too many readings of Communist texts).

[flashMaster10]

Re: Islam and terrorism

ok i didnt read anything about what you guys said because im too busy and about to go to bed but, all i gotta say is that islam does not promote voilence and its the religion of peace. so is christianity and jewism. im a muslim and i would never in my life belive that islam promotes violence.

[virtuoussinner]

Re: Islam and terrorism

All religions, if taken out of context, can promote violence. I cannot think of a single religion that has not killed members of another.

And it's Judaism, not Jewism.

[TheWired724]

Re: Islam and terrorism

All religions, if taken out of context, can promote violence. I cannot think of a single religion that has not killed members of another.

And it's Judaism, not Jewism.

Are you suggesting that i took Qur'an 9:5 and 29 out of context?

[virtuoussinner]

Re: Islam and terrorism

No, what I'm suggesting is that when texts like this are quoted, you must remember that if you don't take the book as a whole, you can come up with anything.

[TheWired724]

Re: Islam and terrorism

Scriptures like the Qur'an and the Bible are sufficiently long in that one can get them to say anything they want by interpreting specific passages in the way that they feel like. People can argue all they want about them, but in the end it's just the simple fact that they're way too long for any universally clear message to get through. It would have been nice if the Bible solely consisted of the Commandments and that was it (end of all Bible debates, yay!) but too bad, it's not.

There is a way to help Muslims intepret the Qur'an, it's abrogation. if two passages contradict each other, the newest of the passages is the one Muslims are to abide by. It's actually pretty simple. And the Qur'an isn't that long. It's about the size of the New Testament.

On that note, I have many Muslim friends who are quite peaceful (well, except for one ... but I attribute that not to Islam but to his too many readings of Communist texts).

Many are peaceful...in fact, most are.

[TheWired724]

Re: Islam and terrorism

No, what I'm suggesting is that when texts like this are quoted, you must remember that if you take the book as a whole, you can come up with anything.

Well yes, especially with a book like the Qur'an(a book with no context or chronology). One could come to any conclusion if they only relied on the Qur'an. However, when one includes the Hadith, the Qur'an becomes much, much clearer.

[virtuoussinner]

Re: Islam and terrorism

"Hadith are traditions relating to the words and deeds of Muhammad."
"The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur'an, Islam's holy book. In Islamic jurisprudence, the Qur'an contains many rules for the behavior expected of Muslims. However, there are many matters of concern, both religious and practical, on which there are no specific Qur'anic rules. Muslims believe that they can look at the way of life of Muhammad and his companions to discover what to imitate and what to avoid. Muslim scholars also find it useful to know how Muhammad or his companions explained the revelations, or upon what occasion Muhammad received them. Sometimes this will clarify a passage that otherwise seems obscure." --Quoted from Wikipedia

[talisman]

Re: Islam and terrorism

Your textual analysis is all well and good, but it does not support your premise. Islam does not "inspire terrorism". There is no doubt that terrorists justify their cause with their religion, and no doubt that they twist the Qur'an when converting new members. But it was not from Islam that terrorism was born. The idea of terrorism comes from a few members of a society looking to impose upon it a new social order. Hell, if you study the rise of the modern radical fundamentalist Muslim movement, it largely started as a reaction to Western society, and the perceived lack of social mores therein. No one sat down and went "Oh whoa, the Qur'an says I should attack non-believers. brb terrorism." But individuals did say "We want to change our society, but we need some way to justify it."

Religion does not found terrorist organizations, but individuals do use twisted views of religion to grant themselves moral authority and legitimacy.

[flamingspinach]

Re: Islam and terrorism

someone's going to call me insensitive, but, uh...

All religious scriptures were written by human beings, and are imperfect. The concept of religion and what is morally acceptable and what is not has also changed vastly over the centuries. Any religion that is foolish enough to follow some book written by pious ancients to the letter can be accurately said to "inspire behavior akin to what someone more than a thousand years ago thought was 'moral'". Whether that's a good thing or not of course depends on the circumstances - which usually even vary over the course of a scripture, since they often weren't written by only one person (case: the bible).

Basically all I'm saying is that you could pretty much find verses just as bad as each other in the Bible and in the Qur'an until the proverbial cows come home without proving anything about whether religion inspires terrorism or evil deeds.

[tha Guardians]

Re: Islam and terrorism

Spinach... thank you.

[TheWired724]

Re: Islam and terrorism

"Hadith are traditions relating to the words and deeds of Muhammad."
"The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur'an, Islam's holy book. In Islamic jurisprudence, the Qur'an contains many rules for the behavior expected of Muslims. However, there are many matters of concern, both religious and practical, on which there are no specific Qur'anic rules. Muslims believe that they can look at the way of life of Muhammad and his companions to discover what to imitate and what to avoid. Muslim scholars also find it useful to know how Muhammad or his companions explained the revelations, or upon what occasion Muhammad received them. Sometimes this will clarify a passage that otherwise seems obscure." --Quoted from Wikipedia

I just woke up, so please forgive me if i miss your point.

Isn't this just confirming what i said? The Qur'an is relient on the Hadith? Sorry, i'm a bit slow right now.

[TheWired724]

Re: Islam and terrorism

Your textual analysis is all well and good, but it does not support your premise. Islam does not "inspire terrorism". There is no doubt that terrorists justify their cause with their religion, and no doubt that they twist the Qur'an when converting new members. But it was not from Islam that terrorism was born.

I suppose a more accurate charge would have been ''Islam inspires hostility torward those who reject it.'' Terrorism is a tactic, so of course it is not necessarly a Islamic method.

idea of terrorism comes from a few members of a society looking to impose upon it a new social order.

Yeah, it's called Islamic law.

study the rise of the modern radical fundamentalist Muslim movement, it largely started as a reaction to Western society, and the perceived lack of social mores therein. No one sat down and went "Oh whoa, the Qur'an says I should attack non-believers. brb terrorism."

Well actually, it did kinda start like that. It's not like it's only been recently that Muslims who been hostile. Within the first to years of the Islamic era, the first Muslims had set out on over a dozen raids- all offensively. Now in truth it was not because they were after non-Muslims, but after loot. Local caravans passing by were their targets. Then after the battle of Badr killing infidels become something Allah praised and later became a mandatory act for all Muslims. Eventually they conquered all of Arabia, Spain, and Egypt killing those who did not submit or pay the Jizyah tax. So you see, this really isn't a new thing for Islam.

Religion does not found terrorist organizations, but individuals do use twisted views of religion to grant themselves moral authority and legitimacy.

Why do you insist that they twist their scriptures? Did you ever think that maybe they're actually following their scriptures properly? Or simply emulating the example their prophet left behind?

[flamingspinach]

Re: Islam and terrorism