Civilized Bible debate.

[i_like_ham]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

ok on the topic of the bible and wat happens after you die. in the sense of christian belief, and especially catholic belief there is a heaven and hell. In jewish religion i believe they believe the same thing (maybe obly heaven though cuz my gf is jewish and she doesn't believe in hell), and islamic religions are similar. All three of these religions are based off the same GOD. In consiquence you can ask any of these religious groups what happens after death and you will get the same answer if they believe in there religion. Also you cannot prove what happens after death. You can use references but then it will get shot down instantly becuz your r4eference (the bible) will then be shot down with various quotes of scripture that people will pull that they will disprove.

Another problem that has occured, the catholic religion does not just use the bible for its religious background. It uses the bible, church tradition, sacred scripture, and the Magistirium. These are what catholics base their religion on. On the other hand Mormons creasted there own book and other protestant religions have removed certain books from the catholic bible. Also the jewish religion only has the first testament of the bible (the Torah). Also there were originally twelve tribes in israel. But only 2 of these tribes came to be the modern jewish religion, the other ten are known as the lost tribes.
They will then have a little different view. Also in ancient Egyptian times they believed that your soul would be weighed against a feather to see if you were pure in heart or not. Also some religions believed in different categories of heaven and hell. It all depends on how you interpret your religion (they way it was meant to be interpreted or some way you invented yourself).

It comes down to if you have faith or not. If you have faith then you will believe this. If you dont have faith then you will not. Eveyone has their own religious views. I have friends that are Christian, Jewish, and Islamic. I also have friends that and atheists, pagan, and agnostic. In a scientific sense your body disintigrates into the ground is absorbed by the earth and the molecules in your body continue in the earth's several systems.

Anyway getting back to what happens after you die according to the bible as you have already forgot what i have said probably, you will die and be judged on whether you go to heaven or hell depending on how you lived. God makes this judgement and i have somes quotes for those of you who want them, revelation chapt. 1, "I hold the keys to death and the netherworld."; revelation chapt. 4 "After this I had a vision of an open door 2 to heaven, and I heard the trumpetlike voice that had spoken to me; there are several references to death and what happens after you die but only one is fully accounted for and that is of Jesus'. He was the first officiall human soul into heaven and had opened the gates of heaven. there is a scritural quote for this and i will catch up with this as soon as i find it.

EDIT: my bad finished typing this after the other comment had gone in. and what will happen to earth in the future, near or distant, either way revelations takes care of that.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

Ok don't use references on what religions say. I like you use of actual verses so stick to that if you make any other comments.

Could refute some of your logic but I want to get off the subject of death and on to another.

[SlipKnot666Midnight]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

Ok, the bible supports you in hating those of your family.

Here are the scriptures.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:34 For I am come to set a man in variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Matthew 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child, and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

Matthew 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my names sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

There, Ye bible tells you to hate your mother and your father and your sister and your brethren, so you may have everlasting life =P.

You can find these on www.bettybowers.com/biblequiz.html

[sjoecool1991]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

Sorry Guido.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

Well off topic midnight but since no one cares about the earth, let's discuss family values

I've read a bunch of different things that people read and say, "Ok I can hate my parents and it's the right thing to do." Which is biased reasoning because for one you don't consider texts that say the exact opposite(Ephesians 6:1-4 for example), and two you don't consider context or reason logically on it.

Luke 14:26: If we were told to hate our family but love our enemies (Matthew 5:44) wouldn't you think that's a bit backwards? Rather it's just saying that a love for God should be greater than your love for father, mother, brother, etc.

Matthew 10:34: Well let's see. 1) Verse 36 says enemies would be in the family, 2) 37 talks about the same principle mentioned in Luke. Again this is only saying that family division will cause problems and you should go with God's Word over your parent's.

Matthew 10:21: Verse 22 states that you would be enemies by all people, including family. This would mean that even your own family might hate you for studying/applying God's Word. Luke 21: 16-17 is similar meaning that people (even family) would persecute you for bascially doing what's right. It was also one of the "signs of the conclusion of things" mentioned in Matthew ch 24.

Matthew 19:29: Again beating the same principle. However this is talking about the rewards for enduring through such persecution from people and family members.

I didn't check out the site for whatever else there is. I'm sure it's all related stuff and is more reasonably applied like my reasoning.

Too many times to people read something and run with what they think rather than what it means. It's like if someone said "Pick a number from 1-100." You pick 34 but then you find that the number is odd not even, so do you keep thinking the number is 34 or do you change your mind and pick another number? But hey, ultimately what you read and believe is your own business and no one should force you to think otherwise.

Reach's website that he cited did the same thing. I could see faulty reasoning/logic in a lot of it. Some of it made sense, I won't bash it all. But who knows how much research went into all those statements compared to just me trying to see where the wrong is XD.

But that's why I like debates, you can exchange/refine ideas and theories that you have. 90% of the time people are set in what they believe (or don't believe) but it's always fun to see where people stand on certain topics.

So keep you ideas coming. We're on family values still if there is any more thoughts on the matter.

[SlipKnot666Midnight]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

Ok, basically you just gave me information that contradicts the bible, so now the real question we should be asking is, should we be taking advice from a book that contradicts its own information? Is it really wise?

[FluorescentArmy]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

Ok this isn't going to be a huge explanation but I feel the need to post it.

During the middle ages almost everyone became uninterested in literature or were just illiterate. Am I right? In history I learned that Monks in the temples preserved literature and would write various copies. This is including the bible. Those monks could have made anything up they want. They could lie. I can't remember if they found any archaic bibles or not. BUT. Sorry to stray off topic.

[Tps222]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

Addressing the hundreds of years old thing:

Is this based on the current Gregorian calender or some weird one they had back then? If so, 900 years could be a lot shorter. I think their seasons were determined by the flooding of the major river nearby. (IE Nile, Tigris and Euphrates etc)

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

Ok, basically you just gave me information that contradicts the bible, so now the real question we should be asking is, should we be taking advice from a book that contradicts its own information? Is it really wise?

No your information contradicted itself. Mine stayed consistant and was applied so that nothing else contracted itself.

[i_like_ham]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

yah, you know, basically the fifth commandment says "though shalt honor thy mother and father" exodus 20:1-17

[xCavemaNx]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

All i have to say is you guys have probley never even read the whole bible or even read any of the bible so u can't say what u think is right and what is wrong about god and the bible you are just getting this info from life experinses and poeple and the internet just bits and pices. your just thinking what every one else wants you to think you are scared to belive in some one who everyone else thinks is not real your afraid of rejection. And so befor you go on saying gods not real the bible not real i dare you to read the bible then doubt it if you think its mubojumbo i bet you if you read it, it will change your life forever. So befor you think i am some dumb 13 yearold talking about mumbojumb read the bible!

[flamingspinach]

Re: Civilized Bible debate.

I read the entire Bible in 5th grade because my English class was learning grammar which I had already known better than the teacher for years and I wanted a diversion :/

Does that make me authoritative? If so, here's what I have to say:

The bible is not to be taken literally. Even if you're a Christian, doing that would make you go crazy, if you actually read the whole thing. From a Christian perspective (which I know quite a bit about, having gone through a christian school for 7 years), the Bible is an amazing collection of works written by people of strong faith over thousands of years. From a non-Christian perspective, the fact that it has been meticulously preserved over the centuries just goes to show how compelling it is.

But nobody who actually knows what they are talking about could possibly entertain the notion that the Bible was actually meant to be a rulebook. The point of the Bible is to help believers understand the motivations of the faithful over the course of the history of the Church(es).

So the Bible is not a literally accurate source. However, the arguments being brought up against the Bible in this thread are retarded as hell. SlipKnot666Midnight (I feel a wave of corniness roll over me as I type your username... ugh), you really just set yourself up to be knocked over right there.

If you want an instance in which the Bible has been disproven by science, see that link that was posted earlier in the thread: http://ffrf.org/quiz/scripts/bquiz_results.php . #14 should do nicely. Again, this is because the Bible was written by people - people living in an age where they didn't have the scientific knowledge we have today. Science hasn't disproven religion, nor are they at odds with each other. Religion just constantly adapts to any accusation science brings against it, and more recently has finally learned (in the case of the Catholic church, for example) to never make any explicit statements about the physical reality that science describes. Pope John Paul II even said explicitly that evolution was a quite reasonable proposition, and that science and religion can by definition never conflict.

So the entire argument is worthless. Unless you're talking about fundamentalists, which are a totally different question (and there seem to be a couple lurking around this forum). They're just either brainless or don't know any better, and it's impossible to try to argue with them.

-fs