Mankind is degrading

[Reach]

Some things I found interesting:

''University of California at Berkley educational psychologist Arthur Jensen, Ph.D., wrote that beyond one standard deviation above the mean (an IQ score of around 115), "the IQ level becomes relatively unimportant in terms of ordinary occupational aspirations and criteria of success."

Oh and

''Where IQ tests are less useful is in making meaningful distinctions between different IQ levels at the extremes of ability, both above and below the mean, but especially the former. This is due in part to the decreasing discrimination between subtest scale scores at the extremes of performance. For example, on the Vocabulary subtest of the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-III, (this subtest correlates more strongly with overall intellectual ability than the other 12 subtests), the raw score difference between a scale score of 10 and 13, which represents a one standard deviation difference, is 7-10 points for a 16-year old; while the difference between a scale score of 16 and 19, which is also a one standard deviation difference, but two to three standard deviations above the mean, is only three points. Correct responses on the Vocabulary subtest are scored as either one or two points, depending on the quality of the response. Using Wechsler's system of classification, the difference between Average and High Average intelligence on this subtest may reflect a difference of as much as 5-10 correct responses; while the difference between Superior and Very Superior intelligence may reflect a difference of only two correct responses. The latter is hardly a substantial difference, and at the higher levels of IQ, not a particularly meaningful one. ''

Laff. I've been saying this for forever...IQ really becomes udderly meaningly after 115-130 because they really arn't measuring anything inportant because of how the bell curve works.

The bell curve works as 100 being the average. This however does NOT mean that the average number of questions anwsered correctly is half of the total questions.

The average would probably be closer to 65-75% of the questions correctly as an average. So that means, say if you got 85/100, your iq might show up as 115. 90/100, 130. 95/100, 160. 100/100 , 200. How is this meaningful? This works the same as often unfair testing in school. A lot of weight is put onto very little, which is in essence meaningless. And they can't make the tests too long...because then it again becomes unfair.

Intelligence...It really can't be measured.



Oh and, apparently Einstiens IQ wasn't even high. He was NEVER tested. That and, had he been tested at a young age, he would have done horribly.

''Einstein, for example: as a child, he was delayed in speech and was a poor student who dropped out of school at one point and failed to pass the entrance examination for admission to the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich. He was eventually admitted after retaking the examination two years latter, and graduated, but was unable to obtain a university teaching position, and went to work instead as an assistant technical clerk in the patent office in Bern, Germany. Einstein was well on his way to what appeared to be an entirely uneventful and undistinguished career. Using the same method that Cox did to rate geniuses based on their behavior and performance either in childhood or young adulthood up to the age of 26, Einstein would have received one of the lowest IQ scores on her list of geniuses.

Einstein's IQ is unknown. It has never been tested''


Oh, and we also have the flynn effect. IQ scores are going up!! They are constantly resetting tests and making them more difficult to reset the average score.

I WONDER WHY!?!?!?!

MAYBE BECAUSE OF BETTER EDUCATION, BETTER UPBRINGING WHERE EDUCATION AND MARKS ARE TOP PRIORITY, AND OVERALL, THINGS THAT IMPROVE SCORES ON THESE TYPES OF QUESTIONS!??!?!

If you still havn't figured it out...well, I give up.

But IQ is like a puzzle with most of the pieces still left in the box.

[chickendude]

Schools aren't meant to measure intelligence, or give intelligence or anything like that.

Schools are just where you go to gain general knowledge. Gain knowledge, as in just memorize stuff. Doing well in school means you're putting in effort. How well you do basically depends on how much effort you put in. It makes sense because as somebody famous said (I should know who this is >_>) success is 1% intelligence and 99% hard work. Einstein didn't succeed in many of his classes because he didn't put the work in. He didn't want to. He could have passed if he wanted to. He wasn't bad at school, he just didn't try. He put LOTS of effort into his crazy-awesome theories.

Its the effort that counts the most in many endeavors. School just broadens your choices of what you can put effort into. Its just a knowledge cramming device that puts in histories worth of knowledge accumulated into your head in a few years.

[Lightknight924]

Also, we do not know everything about the brain yet. Some stuff we cannot explain yet.

[lord_carbo]

Might as well join this chat...

The irony of the first page of this article is that the people that can't take the time to think if it really is impossible or not are commenting on something that takes a lot of smarts to accomplish.

About IQ tests, this has always been a complaint to me. People who try to compare my IQ to theirs are usually stupid, and I joke that just by trying to compare someones IQ, I tell them that if they honestly want to compare them, then their IQ probably isn't high enough to know that IQ tests are bull.

Standardized tests over here do require a bit of thought on the open ended portions. It wasn't like this until fourth grade, and before that we took some wierd national test called the Terra Nova, which had no open ended questions.

My literature class isn't like yours, Benny, but when it comes me to English claz, we are learndin stuff 2end grayders R. Just last week we covered punctuation, and a month before that we covered the use of the articles "a" and "an". As if I haven't mastered those two things in 2nd grade, they somehow pop up right now 6 years later, and all these dumb new rules are introduced onto us, and ironically, all of these new rules I learned were the result of me getting a B on the test. I could of used my old knowledge and of gotten an A or an A+ if I didn't make a silly mistake.

[blahblah18]

IQ isn't the point, its intelligence. Intelligence degrades because of how good and cushy society and life is. Its only necessity that breeds greatness. If there's no need to be great, it won't happen. Also, I believe we can use g to measure intelligence, with like the 7 levels of intelligence that is all the new psychological and sociological fad these days. Its not that bad a system. Also with improving medical care governmentally regulated, its juts as easy for "dumb" people to reproduce as "smart" people, so there's no reason to make us "smarter" as a speciesb

[Shopowner200]

People Now are just becoming like drones and shutting off their Minds. If something that seems unreal to people is announced, everyone will quickly shut off their minds and says it is impossible. But then when whatever happens, everyone is just saying Wow! I never thought they could do it!
Example 1:Hurricane Katrina: Bush was alerted back in 2001 that a Hurricane Like Katrina would hit New Orleans. He didn't Believe them, therfore when we got slammed by katrina in september, he was surprised so much he failed to get people their quickly.

[FluorescentArmy]

I believe that we are degrading because we are all so damn lazy. If we weren't so lazy we could probably have flying cars right now. And the school deal with the IQ tests. There is this girl in all of the accelerated classes, along with me, who the stupidest person I have ever met. And she cheats off of people to get good grades. She has this really smart kid, smarter than me, do all of her homework in exchange for some food at lunch. What a freaking idiot. Meh, when I passed that IQ test to get into accelerated classes, I was like 5. I believe that since we humans are sentient beings, we all have the same ability to utilize our brain. The "stupid" or SPEDS, just dont utilize their brains functions properly. Anyways, about SPEDS, In my school the get to sit there, play video games, eat, and watch TV, when us NORMAL students are taking some hard ass test. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU BE GOING EASY ON THEM. YOU WOULD THINK TO GO HARDER JUST SO THEY DO GET SMARTER. Humans are sofa king retarded. I am going to enjoy the mass genocide of the human race. I think many of you here will too. Hurray 2012!

Back to the topic......
Its like the Grim Reaper show says on Newgrounds, eventually we will achieve perfect society, not in our life time, but then It will be too late. There will be no more animals that aren't in captivity, the aliens would have us for bed slaves, schools would just be a place to go for 8 hours and have fun, and then comes the Apocolypse. Since we are so perfect we would have a million clones of the President incase one dies. And then they will realize what humanity had done to Mother Earth and Russia, and we will all go to hell to server 2 eternities of Damnation. The human race is screwed.

EDIT: Now we are really screwed

[Specforces]

Standardized tests, standardized books, standardized industry, standardized living.

School is like the military, from the beginning they keep you busy. They give you a task, tell you how to do it, tell you when to do it, and tell you to do it. There is no room for intellectual development and creativity is stifled. They teach you how to be "good members of society," tell you not to question things. You are basically sheep in training until you either:

1. Realize it's all a ploy to make you all the same
2. Accept your fate

There are ways to play the system however. These people usually succeed and go on to challenge the system.

Teachers are the system. Teachers are part of business. They teach the same old non-offensive standardized material.

Take columbus for example. At an early age you are taught that this was a good man that discovered America. Obviously wrong if you know anything.

Textbooks too, they print their text with the least offensive, least challenging materials in order to get them approved faster/sold faster/accepted more widely.

It's all a system.

P.S.- You are a moron to blame that on the president. It was the city's responsibility to responsibly use their budget or request more of a budget from the state and the government to fix such a problem. Plus New Orleans has known of the potential problem for years before Bush was ever president, so stop spitting out what you hear your mommy and daddy talk about and get your own opinion you retarded twat.

People Now are just becoming like drones and shutting off their Minds. If something that seems unreal to people is announced, everyone will quickly shut off their minds and says it is impossible. But then when whatever happens, everyone is just saying Wow! I never thought they could do it!
Example 1:Hurricane Katrina: Bush was alerted back in 2001 that a Hurricane Like Katrina would hit New Orleans. He didn't Believe them, therfore when we got slammed by katrina in september, he was surprised so much he failed to get people their quickly.

[somerndmguy]

Re: Mankind is degrading

Righty... this sounds awfully like the lies to children that Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen were talking about...

Apparently, in the "Science of Discworld" I, II, and III, they mentioned that sometimes humans teach others knowledge that is simplified into a manner so that they don't confuse them. Hence the name, because we usually tell children a part of the fact, but never the whole thing in fear of totally confusing them. So we change the facts around slightly to make it sound right. In fact, a lot of the information you hear is probably lies to children.

Mind you, I can't think of any off the top of my head... read the Science of Discworld... it saves me so much time.
I feel so slow now... =(

[Lightknight924]

Re: Mankind is degrading

It's dreaming of the impossible that makes the impossible possible. The idea of a Space Elevator, an elevator stretching from the earth to a space station, or the moon seems very farfetched and very impossible. Is it though? It could be achieved. I'm sure the idea of a car seemed impossible to our primape age.

Or, Like I've read before somewhere around here. We could go down undersea. Where much of our rescources remain. Water, plants, and as a dangerous factor; unknown animals. Only problem is pressure, except that's not unsolvable. So either way. We have many options.

Think of that though, maybe in time we will have cities like New York and Moscow on the moon. "So, where do you work Phil?" "Oh I work on in the Future Tech Department. On the Moon!"

You could wake up every morning, hop onto an elevator.....and whoosh through space. Silly, but awesome if it became a reality.

[Benny1]

Re: Mankind is degrading

Recently in a wired magazine, I saw a think about LOSING IQ points.

One of the things was drop out of high school. You started with 100 IQ Points.
First of all, techinically, with IQ, it should not really be learned, so that idea of losing an IQ point that was is rediculous. Then, if that is true, why do you start with 100. If you started with 100, wouldn't going to high shcool make you go over 100? So shouldn't most of our literate society be above average?

Good job inconsistancy.

[Reach]

Re: Mankind is degrading

Recently in a wired magazine, I saw a think about LOSING IQ points.

One of the things was drop out of high school. You started with 100 IQ Points.
First of all, techinically, with IQ, it should not really be learned, so that idea of losing an IQ point that was is rediculous. Then, if that is true, why do you start with 100. If you started with 100, wouldn't going to high shcool make you go over 100? So shouldn't most of our literate society be above average?

Good job inconsistancy.

Lol. Schooling does make your IQ go up *gasp*. It's not as genetic as we would like to think. As I recall the average person gains 2-3 IQ points for each year of schooling! Why do you think the japanese and koreans average IQ's around 110?

The whole "flynn" effect which has caused some controversy isn't that complicated of an issue in my eyes. We arn't that much smarter. We're better at taking the flawed IQ test due to environmental factors. I do think the test is a good predictor of mental ability to a point. It predicts the lower end of the spectra better than the higher end. There is no real data to support the fact IQ's of over 115-130 mean anything as the tests were not designed to judge people above that area. Some people have *tried* to develop super hard IQ tests to measure high intelligence, but they are just as flawed.

[Gelsamel]

Re: Mankind is degrading

Recently in a wired magazine, I saw a think about LOSING IQ points.

One of the things was drop out of high school. You started with 100 IQ Points.
First of all, techinically, with IQ, it should not really be learned, so that idea of losing an IQ point that was is rediculous. Then, if that is true, why do you start with 100. If you started with 100, wouldn't going to high shcool make you go over 100? So shouldn't most of our literate society be above average?

Good job inconsistancy.

..... the older you are the better you have to score on IQ tests to keep the same number. IE. at 16 you get 150? If you don't do any work in school you'll probably drop by the age of 18 even if you answer everything exactly the same.

After reading half of these posts and people side tracking people who were already side tracked off the topic I felt sorry for you all. I stopped at the post I quoted above.

As for the space lift I don't think it is possible. Media esp. Internet has been known for it's bull**** content and without delving deep into the situation (since I'm a lazy ass mf, and I couldn't careless) I wouldn't put any weight into it.

If it does happen good for you. You can sit in an elevator for a few days while you slowly climb up through the atmosphere. (Or if they decide that is too long then you could just get training from NASA and go up in the elevator pulling 20gs)

As for IQ I think it's done wrong. It should be a measurement of logic. Not inteligent. Ie. you goto school and you work hard you get smarter? But has your logic increased? Nope. I think that is static from when you are born. Logic.. hard to explain but say if you weren't given the formula for an equation and you had to figure it out, how easily you figured it out just from your own intuition would be logic (probably the best example I've seen -and done- of these are in Vector Equations).

At the moment I'm cruising through school (exept English damn you!) pretty easily without doing work. But I've always been a really quick learner. (And no I don't cheat).


PS: Just FYI I scored 158 on my IQ test >.>;.

[Hr2]

Re: Mankind is degrading

I personally do not believe that mankind is degrading and it is simply that the majority of people will always think the same way. The majority of people will always say what looks impossible is impossible. It is just how things are.

As for IQ, you've mentioned all kinds of reasons why it can't be adequately measured, I agree. For the Flynn Effect, another factor could be increased nutrition as an infant.

As for being able to determine your intelligence through "Working hard" I disagree with completely. Will you be less intelligent if you don't work, yes. Will you be smarter if you do, yes. Can you become a genius by setting your mind to it? No. Some people are genetically predisposed. I remember reading an article about a baroque composer who composed over 5000 fugues, yet none of them were good even though he worked very hard on composing. This proves that genius musical composition is genetic, and is obviously not just a practice thing. I believe this would be true for many things, including logic and general intelligence.

As for standardized tests, I think they are a FAR better measure than school performance but not comprehensive by any means. I used to do very well in school, but lately I have been doing very poorly. It isn't even for lack of understanding or work, I have simply been doing worse. School grades are a combination of 4 factors, in this order

Work + Memory + Intelligence + Obedience

You need to work hard in school to get good grades, simple as that. Many things in school are exercises in memory (yay mine is subpar), and having a photographic memory guarantees you good grades. Intelligence is a supplement to grades for those who are in advanced courses. Obedience and doing what the teacher wants is another thing, especially in English classes. Sometimes you have to lie about your true views for a grade on an essay, but thats how it goes.

I just hope getting grades slightly below what I normally get doesn't hurt my college prospects.

I know that they say learning is physically your brain forming links with neurons. Therefore, some people must be born with a brain that forms these links faster, or simply more links at a time. We can see this with other physical processes in our body, such as metabolism. I for example, rarely gain weight.

I think that everything is related to genetics, but people who believe genetic factors are set in stone are wrong (well obviously not gentic disorders and such, but intelligence, weight, things like that) because you CAN force your body to change.

[kickassbuddy]

Re: Mankind is degrading

I made a similar idea. Don't you see how racism is starting up again? I'm sorry, it's just that I have a thing about racism. In the past, the constant "whites and blacks" were a problem, but it is fixed. But now, its "all against Asians", and it seems the government is not checking up on it. In most Southern schools, racism is a big thing, for, not to be racist myself, Mexicans are going like ching-ching and Jackie Chan on us Asians. What did Asians do wrong? What we did was work hard and build parts for video games, HDTVS, and stuff like that. Asians are leaders of Nintendo and Sony, which is big stuff in the gaming industry. Many of us in America become rich and smart so that we can go to Ivy-League colleges (my parents are trying to send me to MIT for summer school). Tihs is leads me up to the point, it seems that over the past years, in the beginning, the Southern USA didn't follow the creed "All men were created equal." And over the years they changed that. Now, people in the Southern USA are falling back to the same problem, but with a different target. Can we just all shut the **** up and just follow the creed "All men were created equal"?