A Marriage Proposal

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: A Marriage Proposal

Whorli will be forced to sign a pre-nup before marriage. The money grubbing she-devil.

But, at the same time... we won't be having children, so that isn't an issue at all.

[The_Q]

RE: Re: RE: A Marriage Proposal

Having easy money is a good thing, but fraud isn't. It's one of the few things I feel the government needs to protect us against. This, ladies and gentlemen, is fraud.

And Tass, you're a wise man. She's a money grubbing little bitch.

Q

[senate7377]

RE: Re: RE: A Marriage Proposal

OK, Q - I have to completely disagree with you. The way your argument has been presented is with backless fact. You have nothing other than perhaps personal experience or opinion to support this argument. What is the basis for the opinion or the data from which your fact was collected? It is true divorce is on the rise and broken families are beginning to run rampant. Check your demographics on that though. A majority of broken families (this inclued illigitimate children or "bastards" if you will) are non-white. Latinos hold the highest birth rates in this country, followed by blacks. Both of which have the lowest marriage rate as well. Is this then something that we blame on "money hungry hoes"? No. Your argument stipulates that divorce is a common "problem" due to money factors. If then it is a money issue, and Lations and Blacks have the lowest marriage rate - how could that be a low-income problem when both ethnicities are paid signifigantly less statistacally than whites? This is also true for women in general, as they too, make less money statistically. If they divorce becuase they want money instead of companionship, then why marry? I understand that is your underlying point, but you lacked the statical data to back it up.

Your argument presents the minority of cases as the majority, if not whole. Being married, white, with a child, and low income; I speak from experience when I say that it is usually the low income families that stay together and have stronger family values.

If we asked as to why this was, we'd have to look a little further (and being a self studied hobby economist, I'm sure you'll understand and be able to understand). Is this then a Socio-Economic problem? Well, I just pretty much stated as no, but I can not speak for the whole, as that would require a census be taken. In truth the "bible belt" states have a higher divorce rate. However, this does not support your statement of lower income. What seems to be the main reason for divorce is age. Those who marry younger, divorce. Why? Personal belief says that many youth feel they know everything and that things will be fine. They'll fix anything that comes your way, and later (rather quickly), they find the world will always be bigger than them. There is also the psycological presentation. In the 1700-1800, by the time a young woman was 26, she was considerd an "Old Maid" and not desirable, therefore were married at a younger age. In todays' society, that "rule" doesn't hold true. Women are considered socially stupid if they marry before the age of 18. As the social standard and more liberal mind sets have become dominant in the society of today, the divorce rate justifiably will rise. It has no true bearing on income, security or the Holy Matrimony (not sacrimony, unless you were playing on it be a sacrelige). I would blame it on "instant society". Claims such as yours are a way of "passing the buck". More and more people expect things to be moronically simple or fixed for them. Take a look at high society; they pay people to do the house work so that they don't have to. It is not becuase they are too busy, but because they are too lazy. Movie Stars and Rock Stars hire nannys to raise their ilk, but are too "busy: to do it themselves. What is the point of a child if you are not willing ot raise and care for it yourself? No wonder things are crazy. Being rasied not really understanding your mother orfather and seeing only materialism, greed, and condesendance towards others will undoubtedly make way for things such as a need for pre-nups. What social snob would want to actually lift a finger to wipe their own ass when hubby makes enough money to have it dome by a different person each day of the week? When he cant buy the daily selection of Pradas, its time to go.

On a low income level I believe the cause to be more along the lines of educational standards. America had the highest test score back in the 50s. It is a moot point, yes and I will explain. Once the segregation in public schools was dissolved, America found that a majority of the blacks were not doing as well academically. The solution was not tutoring the kids to be scholasticaly better, but rather lower the standards. My father in HS, did Physics and Chemistry with an abacus and slide rule. Im sure that a mjority of you have never used one, and would be surprised if you've SEEN one. Today we have TI-93 full color LCD scientific claculators that can reverse an equasion and comes with a myriad of pre-installed funstions. It takes teh work out of it. I did physics with an abacus and slide rule becuase my father made me, I would have LOVED to use a calulator, but I can get a Calculus answer faster with an abacus than many of you can with a calculator. Its just an example of lower standards. Anway, over time, the national standards have been dropping so as to keep the appearance of still doing well. Until recently, we have not wanted to admit that we don't do well in school, when compared to Japan, Germany, Sweden, China, Britain, and England. Here in VA, the cover was blown off of a state scam a while back in where a pre test was given out that was to be the actual test. The students took it and many failed. Realizing that in no way would VA look good at all for test scores, they made the test much easier so that the students would pass with flying colors. Come test day, the new test was administered and 3% of student failed it still, putting VA at #3 in the best educated states. If you have an improper and near worhless education. Poor education leads to lack of respect in many cases, reflecting back to the black community. While this is not true in all cases, I only need but bring up the lyrics of popular rap to prove that point.

My last reason would be the liberalization of American society. Over time we, as a nation have become much less conservative. Visitors to the White House wearing pink and green flip-flop (that, reportedly "mortified" one woman"), Ex-Presidents getting blow-jobs by interns, churches being ridiculed for not accepting gays and lesbians, multi-colored hair, blatant violence in the media, sex on tv, facial piercings, tattooes, and casual dress in the corporate office. These are a few examples of the conservative down fall. None of that has to do with income, but more personal value. A more accurate point or opinion would be to discuss what has caused the overall decline in personal values. This is something that, in truth would bneed to be analysed on a case by case basis. Things are generalized to make it easier to understand on the whole, but hardly qualify as accurate.

Now, the liberal aspects that I've listed...I'm party to as well. I have 7 tats, 5 piercing, I wear casual dress to work and often times wear jeans to a corporate meeting when I'm asked to present my findings in marketing and advertiseing for video games. I used to actually like Will and Grace, and at a time, I love the violence in the media. however, I will adjust my appearance out of respect for others, in that I will throw in the suits and a tie to meet with the company heads (the tw o times my insight was called upon). So while the monetary aspect which Q has stated may be a result of lower standards in compilation with the other things I've said; in my opinion it is not the complete source, rather a contributor of, hence my total disagreement.


Here is my source for the Latino aspect of my comment. The remainders were taken from Google searching US Cenus reports for US marriage, divorce, birth rates, and religeous standings. It was a bit of work inding things more recent that 1996 and 2002. I did find them, but did not make note of their location.

http://juantornoe.blogs.com/hispanictrending/2005/07/birth_rate_of_l.html

Now, I do agree with and have often said that child support should end when the parent with custody remairries. I also believe that Alimony should only be paid for as long as the couple was married. This gives the woman or man a minimum of 5 years to get a job and establish themselves to the level of living they had been accustomed to. Should the partner recieving alimony remarry, then alimony stops. Also, if the alimony recipient aquire a job that has more income than the alimony payment recieved annually, alimony stops. If the person paying alimony recieves a pay raise, then neither shild support nor alimony need be adjusted, as those rulings are given with consideration of the job you currently have. The couple is no longer togehter and future income is of no consequence. I find these fair stipulations for all parties involved. Neither man nor woman has the advantage, as there is no real gain and no real loss and prevents scams or at least makes it harder. I do believe taht willfully not making child support payments should be cause for revokation of a Drivers Liscence, but you shoudl have a visit by the Police and have it physically taken. Most jobs will not hire you if you have no Identification. Whats left is low end, generally cash only jobs...you'd drive yourself to poverty. I'm very intolerant of child abuse and neglect. I feel if you are man enough to make the kid, you'd better be man enough to own up to it. I also feel that if you are woman enough to have sex and so on, you should be prepared to deal with consequences that come with. Its all a mtter of looking before you leap. Obviously there is more leap than look out there now.

[ramonesfan]

RE: Re: RE: A Marriage Proposal

Why is marriage a religous thing anyway? That annoys me that it is, what about the people (including me) who arent religious?

[senate7377]

RE: Re: RE: A Marriage Proposal

Thats what court is for, get married at the Justice of Peace. I see your argument there, and its very valid, however, its a religeon thing becuase the divroce rate precentage have it factored in as well. More couple with religeon divorce than those who have none. As to whether or not the tally counts marriages in a church as a religeous couple or not, I do not know. I'm not an overly religeous person myself, nor is my wife. We both have Faith, but neither believe in organized religeon (which we believe is based off of fear, but I can make a whole seperate post for that later).

To answer your question, I believe its held in regards to relgeon becuase of old conservative values and stereotypes. In movies and pictures you always see a Preist, Pator, Rabbi, or some other figurehead joining two people in Holy Matrimony. I was married by a Pastor, he was Baptist. I was raised Baptist, but find flaws all over every religeon I've looked into. So, I kind of have my own belief system that draws from this and that, but does have a set standard of universal "rules" that are recognised in some way or another by anything Christian.

Regardless of the factors, there is fact in the rise in divorce, and Q's underlying point is true, but my whole argument was it lacked supporting evidence. It is there, if you go and look it all up yourself, but as an "as read" basis, it sounds pretentious. In looking up and doing minor research I found a few other moot points to add and thus noted them in my addendum. I'm sort of interested in seeing what Q has to say about it, now that a more broad and equally specific set of variables have been added for and against his discussion point.