Chicken or the Egg Discussion

[Squeek]

Uhh.

I was right.

Did you not read my reply? It was the right answer. Don only managed to elaborate on my rightness.

Nobody listens anymore. I swear.

~Squeek

[AasumDude]

you're the only one in this topic that made any sort of try at all. Thanks for trying but a conversation like this turned into a fast food discussion. Sick.

[alainbryden]

I posted this in another thread when this one was first locked.

Assume the evolutionary theory stands, which most beleieve it does: Since all gene transformation that would have resulted in a chicken takes place in the gametes, the egg came first, since it is the zygote produced by two haploid cells, it is the only possible organism that could contain the modern day chicken's genes - freshly mutated.

Therefore, the egg came first, all it takes is applied scientific theory.

Squeek was right.

Thread over.

[DonCasablanca]

This is a scientific question. None of us know (#$% about it. Even if you did take your highschool biology class, it doesn't give you anywhere near the right of a professional opinion. That's a fancy way of saying I don care (and no one should) about your opinion because it's based on nothing.

Cheers,
Ryan

Wow, cheers indeed Ryan.

About none of us knowing "(#$%" about it ... that "highschool" biology class to which you refer? It probably had something like 7th-grade life science as a prerequisite, which should have explained everything you need to know to formulate a "professional opinion" on this "scientific question." Mutation, meiosis.

But anyway, it's ineffably awesome that the Google adds above this thread (at least the first page) are for KFC. As that is, I'll remind you, the real topic at hand.

Although they should be for Popeye's.

[talisman]

but the egg that the first chicken evolved inside of wasn't a chicken egg, therefore the chicken came first. although there would need to be a rooster around somewhere too.

[Squeek]

No talisman, that is wrong. The mutation occured before it was an egg, so it was a chicken while inside the creature it was eventually to be born from. Just because it was born from a (whatever) doesn't make it that species. Was the first human a human or a monkey? If you say monkey, then we're all monkeys and humans don't exist.

~Squeek

[talisman]

dude eggs don't become chickens... an egg to a chicken is like the womb to a human. my point is that the the egg is a paleo-egg, laid by a paleo-chicken, with the first chicken inside. That first chicken then lays the first eggs. so the chicken comes first.

[alainbryden]

no, it wasn't a paleo-egg, think about it, the mutation ocurred in the gametes before they came together to fertilize the egg. Therefore, the egg was created containing all the genomes of the first "chicken" and the first egg that the first chicken laid was identical to it, therefore the egg came first.

[talisman]

but an egg is a sex cell... made by the paleochicken. It isn't created when fertilization occurs. That's like saying that when people have sex an egg is generated... not true. What does form is a zygote (I think that's the term).

The chicken (zygote) on the inside is created at fertilization. but that fertilization doesn't magically make the paleo-egg an egg, therefore the chicken is still inside the paleo-egg, and thusly came first.

[alainbryden]

The whole point is that a gamete mutated before fertilization, and so it is no longer the sex cell of a paleochicken, but the new organism called "chicken." If anything, the chicken sperm came before the egg or the chicken, but it definately goes in that order.

[talisman]

it depends on whether or not the mutation occurs in the egg or in the sperm I suppose, or both. If it's the sperm, then the chicken comes first because the egg never changes. otherwise it's the egg.

[falconsfan14]

its a matter of religion on where you believe all life came from. simple short answer

[alainbryden]

Short and simple answer: you've invaded the rest of FFR with your idiocy stay OUT of our CT.

Talisman, it's impossible for mutation that changes the genetics of the species to occur after formation of a zygote, therefore it's impossible for a paleo-chicken egg to bring a chicken into the world.

[talisman]

I never said anything about the mutation occurring in the zygote. I'm saying that if the mutation in genes that changes the paleochicken to chicken occurs in the paleosperm and not in the paleoegg, then the paleoegg doesn't become an egg. nevertheless, when the paleoegg is fertilized with the mutated sperm, it has a chicken forming inside it.

[alainbryden]

Oh I see what you're saying. Tricky. Now it baisically all depends on whether the male paleozygote mutated or the female paleozygote mutated.

So when they say "Which came first, the chicken or the egg." They are leaving out "sperm"
If you are only considering those two posibilities, then it's possible that you can consider the chicken as having come first. This is not truely reasonable. A cingle celled organisme containing all the chicken genes did then grow into a chicken. The issue now is whether or not you describe a develloping zygote as the chicken, or only the final form.