The state of grammar on the internet.

[Squeek]

Define old in this case. Wouldn't you agree that at least 90% of the people on the forums here are teenagers? I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but from 1st grade to 8th grade you had to take keyboarding. I'm glad I did. I loved cheating so badly back then... Those keyboard covers never stood a chance. (Though I taught myself to type without looking later on).

Personally, I care about how I appear to others. I want to come off as an intelligent person, simply because that's what I am. I don't want to dumb myself down because then others will look down on that and make it known. Plus I am about to enter college and there's that whole writing papers thing you have to go through. It was a good decision to never use Internet slang in that case because now I will never screw up late at night and turn in a paper full of "u"s.

~Squeek

[The_Q]

Here's my opinion from studying language. Internet slang is bringing language to it's fullest potential. Acronyms for many phrases make writing much more efficient if done properly. Of course, there are consequences, such as a changed language, but language is always changing. If all languages were spelled phonetically there would be many more bilingual people in the world. Also, to go along with the slang of youth, the word "like". Is it bad to use it excessively? I say it's ok in moderation, but excessiveness makes it's effect become nullified. (Excuse my grammar in this post, I'm freaking tired.) When someone says "Like" you assume a detailed description is following so you listen more attentively. It works.

[alvask8er]

The state of grammar on the internet.
Is that not gramaticly incorrect?
I know your topic was more about internet lingo, but eh.
Now, in the real world, many things have been shortened up, but who cares? Every weekday, every state....so why is there a problem with common words that must be repeatedly spelled out?

[Jam930]

The state of grammar on the internet.
Is that not gramaticly incorrect?
I know your topic was more about internet lingo, but eh.
Now, in the real world, many things have been shortened up, but who cares? Every weekday, every state....so why is there a problem with common words that must be repeatedly spelled out?

Is that not gramaticly incorrect?

Double negative and you spelled grammatically wrong.



The reason we don't want to talk with billions of nerdish acronyms and things is because it wouldn't work. Children simply can't go directly to that without learning the proper way first simply because the proper way is neccessary in all professional aspects of life.

Isn't it?

We might as well say "yo wasup mah dawg" and stupid crap like that.

There's never a good reason to be stupid. =/

Where's Spec?

[ImEric12]

2- There is no moral issue at hand. Last I heard, internet slang has not violated any laws or religious beliefs.

Internet shorthand is officially against my religion. Anyone else wanna join it? Free donuts on fridays!

[Squeek]

I'm so in. Donuts rule. And being able to claim religious persecution will be awesome.

If nobody invented slang in the first place, wouldn't English still be English? Now we have Ghetto English (dawg, homie, etc), Internet English (u, lol, r), and of course Old, Middle, and Modern. Stick with Modern.

I just thought of something: What if someone from another country used the Internet to learn to type / talk in English? Wouldn't people be setting a bad example and thus be teaching them the WRONG way?

~Squeek

[The_Q]

Despite the fact that donuts kick some serious ass, especially when someone else pays for them, I think I'll start a religion that is against people joining yours. You seem to want the English language to never change. It will, and it is. All languages do. In England they have cockney, and proper. There are already dialects of English based on location, why not the ultimate location.

Using internet slang should be a badge of honor for Americans when foreigners read it. We have developed our language so far that we now use it so efficiently to use acronyms for phrases and even sentences, conveying points faster and easier than before. We're also spelling words improperly, but phonetically, which actually makes it EASIER for foreigners to understand.

Again, sorry for rambling on a nearly dead thread.

Q

[ImEric12]

That's like saying that we should define ourselves by drug related murders. If people in our culture do that, then it represents us and is an honor to us. On with drug related murders!

[NeoDarkHeart]

yeah i so agree! i'd really rather waste my time expressing a humorous reaction to something by doing "haha" to "hahaha" to "hahahaha" all the time as opposed to the three simple "lol", "rofl", "lmao", and the occasional and rare "roflmao".

seeing "haha" all the time would annoy the crap out of me. not everyone actually says "haha". some people snicker, some people chortle, some people give a little smile and say "heh" under their breath... as opposed to the overall "lol" which just expresses a basic humorous reaction, "haha" is something that's actually said, and therefore couldnt represent something as broad as "lol" does.

would you suggest that every acronym and symbol be spelled out and explained everytime it's used?

example: "hey where do you work, man?" "the federal bureau of investigations." "cool... crap, i have to go to the department of motor vehicles before it closes!" "better hurry... i could go with you if you wanna take the high occupancy vehicles lane, it is usually quicker." "okay let us go, maybe we can make it before it is too late."

FBI
DMV
HOV
let's
it's

i include contractions because they're in the catagory of things that help shorten and take the tedium from typing/writing and talking.

in short... people are using acronyms more and more nowadays. in a place like the internet where you're forced to type over and over again, it helps to make it so that when you type, you type less, and dont have to stress about people going "OH MY GOD HE DIDNT CAPITALIZE HIS SENTENCES! DO EVIL THINGS TO HIM!". that's what school is for.

[Squeek]

The beef I have with "lol" and "rofl" is the context it is used. I'm semi-OK with it when it is its own sentence. When people use it in the middle of a sentence, they need to be punished. That's like saying this:

"Dude that was so funny rofl" = "Dude that was so funny rolling on the floor laughing" In this case you make your sentence run-on and thus it is grammatically unsound.

Acronyms and contractions like SONAR or don't are used properly because we have actually made them into words. If Webster's Dictionary ever puts "LOL" in its dictionary as a noun I will be so filled with angst because "LOL" can never be a noun. Sure, like SONAR the letters stand for words, but SONAR means something now: "A system using transmitted and reflected underwater sound waves to detect and locate submerged objects or measure the distance to the floor of a body of water."

When you say "DMV" you say "D-M-V". When some people want to say "LOL" they pronounce it "lo-ll" and not "L-O-L". This is the common confusion between acronyms and words. Acronyms that aren't converted to words later on are most often said as each individual letter (ie DMV, HOV, FBI, etc). The ones that are made into words are then words when used in context (ie RADAR, SONAR, etc) even though the letters still stand for words.

If any of that made sense let me know. I tend to forget what I was trying to say when I post things.

~Squeek

[NeoDarkHeart]

people dont SAY "lol" or any of those things in real life, unless they're complete retards, and that's my point. this isnt the real world, and nothing in text is HEARD, so it doesnt have to be as "correct" as anything that's heard.

when i see "lol", i think of general laughter or a positive reaction to humor. i dont actually hear "loll", or "roffle", and i dont really think they're "rolling on the floor laughing". it's kind of like a vague metaphor for a more appreciative form of the general laughter that "lol" provides. there's "lol", "rofl", and "lmao" because just to have "lol" would make it hard to discern between what someone would consider slightly funny and hilarious.

comparing DMV and "lol" doesnt work because "lol" is a symbol, or general representation of someone reacting to something funny, therefore it being in the middle of a sentence shouldnt be taken as someone saying "laugh out loud" in the middle of a sentence, rather than someone simply laughing in their own way, as shown in my previous post (chortle, chuckle, etc...).

it's a mistranslation from "lol" to what it means on your part. if translated correctly, it fits in perfectly.

basically:

lol, rofl, lmao = *laughs*

the asterisks show action, and that the content between the two of the asterisks shouldnt be said, but done.

[LEGO]

NDH = win

[The_Q]

NeoDarkHeart, you are brilliant. I agree with you entirely. Unfortunately, symbols like "lol" cannot be used very well in literature, which is why we should still be taught proper grammar. Not saying that you said they could be, of course. I'm just pointing out that there are downsides to everything good. With a new outlook comes prudes and conservatives. With a good change, there is always a shortcoming.

I, as an amateur cartoon "stripper", feel that lol, lmao, rofl etc. are great when using the miracle of instant text messaging, but otherwise rather pointless. Now the only question left is "Are verbal and written English beginning to diverge into totally different languages?"

[evilbutterfly]

what we must remember, above all, is that this is NOT a formal setting. how we type here is not how we would type in a formal essay, a job application, or in our schoolwork. this is how we type to peers and friends. when you talk to your friends, co-workers, family, or anybody else close, you probably dont use proper grammar. "Hey man, what's up?" you may say that to your buddy, but would u go up to your boss or your teacher and say it? no. that's because one is expected to be more formal when communicating with their superiors and elders. such formalities are not needed when communicating with peers, such as we are doing here.

now, this is not to say that we should be completely lacking in the area of grammar. when speaking with friends, we do not completely disregard the basic rules of grammar. we still follow basic sentance structure, and if we speak so grammatically incorrect that people are unable to understand us, we are mocked or ignored by our peers. sure, we may use slang, but we arent completely terrible in how we speak, saying something like "asking i be how are today you now?" thus, online we should still maintain a certain level of grammar.

i am of the mind that formalities such as capitolization are not needed. if a contraction is obvious, such as dont or wont, u dont really need the apostrophe. in cases such as it's, where the meaning changes when it lacks the apostrophe, the apostrophe should always be there. sentances should not run on, but incomplete sentances are sometimes ok. paragraphs, tho a hassle for some, make large blocks of text much easier to read. even i will admit that. just now i realize that my current paragraph was too large, so i went up and pressed enter a few times after "level of grammar." it took a few extra seconds, but it saves others the trouble and eye strain of losing their place in the paragraph.

and as for abreviations, NeoDarkHeart has a good point. i use lol, lmao, and others while talking on AIM, and i find that they save quite a bit of time. however, some people vastly over use these. because they should be viewed as the person laughing, think of how annoying it can be when somebody laughs constantly. it's annoying in person, and excessive "lol"s are annoying online. also, i'm the kind of person that hates repetitive words. if i see that i've used a word a few sentences back, i make a point not to use it again until later. therefore, when talking online, i vary my laughing langage, sometimes "lol"ing while other times "hahaha"ing, with an occasional "hehe" or "tee hee hee." i see each way of laughing as a degree of laughter. only when something is REALLY funny do i bust out the "roflmao," but i see many who use this commonly. that's what pisses me off.

but yeah, that's about it. i think alot of people's ideas about grammar rules stem from their own personal strictness on following them. for example, if u look back at this post, i follow all my own guidelines. while i may not meet other's requirements, they do. thus, i believe that this arguement will never end, and that we will all continue to use the same grammar. ok, NOW i'm done [/rant]

[alvask8er]

Double negative and you spelled grammatically wrong.

:P

what we must remember, above all, is that this is NOT a formal setting.

Well actully i thought i remebered reading that jewpin wanted essay like responses in here at least...but its not really enforced.:P

Are verbal and written English beginning to diverge into totally different languages?"

I hope so. America has its own version of English, but that is the same way as there are differnt kinds of spanish. No real big differecnes, just a few words here and there....