What does it take for kids to learn?

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

Not only does spanking tend to lessen in its effectiveness the more you do it, but it also makes disciplining that much harder once a child "outgrows" spanking.

LOL THIS

How are you going to use physical violence on your child once he/she is able to actually fight back and resist? Maybe even beat the crap out of you? This is why my dad no longer attempts spanking on me, but he did when I was a little kid. So much for control and lessons at that point....

[ghost-]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

But it is a confusing thing to understand for a child. If you spank a child for throwing a tantrum, it doesn't understand why it shouldn't have been throwing a tantrum in the first place -- and you also teach that aggression is an OK solution to problems.

I must be the only one in the world who never found it confusing at all why I was being spanked for my bad behavior. I never took the aggression that was used on me and thought, "it's okay to beat the shit outta things". Hey, that's just me though, and you're going off of tests used all around the world that focus on everybody at once and not the actual percentages of the different kinds of people there are and every scenario possible.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

I guess I didn't say what I wanted to say correctly, that did sound really stupid.

If you're going to say stupid things then don't get your panties in a twist when I call you out for saying stupid things.

What I meant was that a person should probably experience both sides of the argument instead of just look at test data and absolutely trust it with all of your being. I was spanked (only a little) and I turned out very well. But say another kid was spanked just as much as I was and turned out completely f*cked up. It all depends on what type of person you are, and there are a great many people here arguing their cases. I have a friend who was never spanked and is still a little spoiled because of it. I also have a friend who was never spanked and is really outgoing on life, but doesn't have a whole lot of confidence and has some trust issues. It depends on what kind of person you are from the start. The tests you are following probably don't go this deep, or maybe they do and you just fail to acknowledge it? From what I've seen you've been strictly, "Spanking is almost always bad." and that's it.

Have you not been reading this thread? I've posted quite a few links and given plenty of basic, easy-to-understand arguments. Which arguments do you disagree with?

And yes, I agree that one should examine the data, which is precisely what I've done. You'd have to be batshit retarded to only look at half the data.

Also, cut it out with the strawman arguments and anecdotal outliers. Yes, most of us can pinpoint plenty of spoiled kids who never got spanked, but we can also point out spoiled kids who were spanked, unspoiled kids who never got spanked, and unspoiled kids who were spanked. you have to look at the distributions. you can't just blindly assume that "kids were that way from the start" when there is a wealth of data that can be used to predict behavior based on a variety of indicators, which is consistent with what we know about biology and brain chemistry.

[virus003]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

Orly

Feel free to show me the uberconclusive evidence that supports the contrary view... because if you can, you'd be making pretty massive waves in the psychology arena.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/culture/family/2701-new-study-finds-spanking-is-good-for-kids

ahoy there mate

[Reincarnate]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

you're going off of tests used all around the world that focus on everybody at once and not the actual percentages of the different kinds of people there are and every scenario possible.

Heaven forbid I use a large, relevant, random data sample to extract the most unbiased trend possible, GASP.

and what the hell are you talking about? everyone at once and not the... actual percentages of the different kinds of people there are and every scenario possible? what the hell does that mean? are you trying to discuss basic data segmentation/stratification? what scenarios are you talking about in particular?

[ghost-]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

If you're going to say stupid things then don't get your panties in a twist when I call you out for saying stupid things.

Like I said, I don't get angry over things when there's really no point at all for anger anyway. (it doesn't solve anything to be so angry, it actually clouds your judgment)

So there you go again acting like you're the supreme leader of the community again. Maybe the abuse in your past has caused you to turn out like this? Maybe it has. So be it. You control your own actions, you're a big boy. I think that even if a child is beaten/spanked/whatever when they're young, by the time they get old enough to really think about these things they will have matured enough to not let it bother them. Too bad not everybody turns out like this, and to them I say, "grow up". Don't let the past effect your present and what could be a great life. You're making it horrible by dwelling on what happened too much.

[ghost-]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

Heaven forbid I use a large, relevant, random data sample to extract the most unbiased trend possible, GASP.

and what the hell are you talking about? everyone at once and not the... actual percentages of the different kinds of people there are and every scenario possible? what the hell does that mean? are you trying to discuss basic data segmentation/stratification? what scenarios are you talking about in particular?

man, I'm tired, my arguments don't have a very good stronghold atm. Not a wise decision on my part to dive into this without thinking about my life first. >__<

Just disregard it for now.

[awein999]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....-good-for-kids

ahoy there mate

BAHAHAH fox news....anyone can write an article saying anything. Does that mean it's automatically inconclusively correct? Of course not. When the child's answer is "NO" you don't attack the child. Oh and police are definitely 100% helpful in society what a great comparison (sarcasm). Comparing police to adults and parents to children is laughable. The prisoners definitely turn out well after being physically restrained and thrown into a cell. This is garb.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

LOL at the paragraph about the military. Being in the military isn't about lessons, it's about being available to defend against attackers or helping aid other countries.

And awein raises yet another great point - Articles, newspapers, etc. are usually exaggerated to get better reviews, and aren't that reliable.

[ghost-]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

@dossar

The military isn't about lessons? What? I mean, yeah it is quite obviously used for the defense of a country, but how can you say it has absolutely nothing to do with learning something about yourself or life as a whole? That was kind of a silly thing to say.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

It's trying to compare spanking to killing people with modern warfare, which isn't even remotely compatible.

[Artic_counter]

by the time they get old enough to really think about these things they will have matured enough to not let it bother them. Too bad not everybody turns out like this, and to them I say, "grow up". Don't let the past effect your present and what could be a great life. You're making it horrible by dwelling on what happened too much.

You may not remember the spanking but the damage is there. It has shaped your mind and even though you may have been able to get over it and "forget", it's still there. It being a part of you and most likely, you would have turned out being way better without it.

EDIT : Just wanted to add that the article has a pretty much shitty conception of the evolutionist view. Humans are just evolved animals ? Bullshit, what separate us from animals is what we call thinking. That's an ability only human have.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

That article is one of the most hilariously horrible pieces of trash I have read for a long while. this almost doesn't even warrant a response. anything being squeezed out through the sphincter that is Fox News is almost an immediate red flag. that article reeks of faulty logic, inappropriate analogies, and a basic failure to understand the merits of reinforcement.

Did you actually go read that study? It's pretty flimsy and actually doesn't directly address what was claimed in that article -- for every one shitty pro-spanking study you show, you can find a hundred more that fully detail why spanking is not a great solution -- with conclusions that are consistent with basic psychological phenomena that underlie countess other facets of the human psyche -- anything you can possibly think of.

[ghost-]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

It's trying to compare spanking to killing people with modern warfare, which isn't even remotely compatible.

oooh I see, apologies.

You may not remember the spanking but the damage is there. It has shaped your mind and even though you may have been able to get over it and "forget", it's still there. It being a part of you and most likely, you would have turned out being way better without it.

Yes, the damage is there, but I think if you have the determination you can change your whole being, become somebody better. Leave the past behind and not let it scar you anymore. I agree that somebody would probably be better off without the abuse in the first place, but there are occasions when the spanking helps, as it did with me.

edit: well I'll see you guys later, it was nice to have this discussion/debate with you guys. G'night/morning. >_>

[Artic_counter]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

but there are occasions when the spanking helps, as it did with me.

The only think you get from that is fear. Which isn't helping at all. There are better ways to teach a child discipline.

and yeah the article is utter BS

I find funny that the U.S. has a really strong hatred against terrorism and yet approve methods of learning that uses fear. Just something that crossed my mind.