What does it take for kids to learn?

[Reincarnate]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

i didn't say you were violent, ffs improve your reading comprehension. i'm saying that hitting is an impulsive, retarded technique that is typically invoked when they can't think of anything better. this is ALSO well-documented. ask parents that spank these sorts of questions and they almost always wind up being unable to give realistic, effective alternatives. they simply don't know any better because that's how they were raised. it's a cycle.

what is wrong with you? have you never heard of psychology? do you have absolutely no idea how tests are run/conducted? are you so ignorant of even the simplest of empirical measures, at that?

any situation you can bring up that involves hitting or spanking a child can almost always be replaced with a far more effective technique involving positive reinforcement. again, do some basic google searches if not convinced. if you're too lazy to actually look at both sides of the argument before spouting off total garbage, then that's your problem -- not mine.

[ghost-]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

i didn't say you were violent, ffs improve your reading comprehension.

You implied I was violent just because my argument is slightly for the other side. "you're too stupid to think of anything better than pandering to your impulse to hit anything that frustrates you."

what is wrong with you? have you never heard of psychology? do you have absolutely no idea how tests are run/conducted? are you so ignorant of even the simplest of empirical measures, at that?

I know what psychology is, thanks for asking. I didn't bash psychology, I simply asked why you would take tests of a broad spectrum over real-life experiences which IMO hold more value.

any situation you can bring up that involves hitting or spanking a child can almost always be replaced with a far more effective technique involving positive reinforcement.

I agree, but your arguments seem to be completely insults and nothing else, maybe you should calm down and have a reasonable discussion instead of bashbashbash

if you're too lazy to actually look at both sides of the argument before spouting off total garbage, then that's your problem -- not mine.

Excuse me? I'm spouting garbage? You're also assuming I'm lazy. Notice I haven't said a single negative thing towards you. Who's acting more mature right now? You need to fix your attitude problem.

[awein999]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

Abusive behavior is a recipe for fear and anxiety. Far from solving the issue at hand, it makes problems worse. Since this thread is about how parents treat children here is relavent fictional example:
A child talks back to his parents and his dad starts screaming and shoves him. How will this child react? The child will get scared, and will either be more submissive or more rebellious in the future. Conflicts will be avoided rather than confronted which creates tension. He will be less trustful to everyone around him. He won't want to be home as often. He is more likely to partake in damaging behavior.

Words, communication, and understanding are infinitely more effective than violence and dominance. You teach people by reasoning and understanding. And you are not only doing the teaching, you can be taught a few things as well from other people. This is how bonds form.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

what are you talking about? it's not like tests are conducted in some lab somewhere shut off from the world. data is collected FROM real-life experiences and REAL people, so i'm not sure why you're implying the psychological motors aren't derived from these things.

If you didn't want to get insulted, then you shouldn't have called me a douche and showed a blatant misunderstanding of statistics. "golden rule," remember?

[who_cares973]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

so many repeated posts

[who_cares973]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

so many repeated posts

[kmay]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

wow... that was stupid. my internet shat out and it came back and just i have no idea XD

[ghost-]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

what are you talking about? it's not like tests are conducted in some lab somewhere shut off from the world. data is collected FROM real-life experiences and REAL people, so i'm not sure why you're implying the psychological motors aren't derived from these things.

If you didn't want to get insulted, then you shouldn't have called me a douche and showed a blatant misunderstanding of statistics. "golden rule," remember?

blaaah ffr crapped out for a second

I was making an observation about you, this is the internet, things like that happen. Also I never said I didn't want to get insulted, I was merely stating what was going on and how you should improve your behavior instead of becoming enraged.

I guess I didn't say what I wanted to say correctly, that did sound really stupid.

What I meant was that a person should probably experience both sides of the argument instead of just look at test data and absolutely trust it with all of your being. I was spanked (only a little) and I turned out very well. But say another kid was spanked just as much as I was and turned out completely f*cked up. It all depends on what type of person you are, and there are a great many people here arguing their cases. I have a friend who was never spanked and is still a little spoiled because of it. I also have a friend who was never spanked and is really outgoing on life, but doesn't have a whole lot of confidence and has some trust issues. It depends on what kind of person you are from the start. The tests you are following probably don't go this deep, or maybe they do and you just fail to acknowledge it? From what I've seen you've been strictly, "Spanking is almost always bad." and that's it.

EDIT: about the post thing, just click "post reply" once and wait. DON'T keep clicking. :P

[awein999]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

blaaah ffr crapped out for a second

I was making an observation about you, this is the internet, things like that happen. Also I never said I didn't want to get insulted, I was merely stating what was going on and how you should improve your behavior instead of becoming enraged.

I guess I didn't say what I wanted to say correctly, that did sound really stupid.

What I meant was that a person should probably experience both sides of the argument instead of just look at test data and absolutely trust it with all of your being. I was spanked (only a little) and I turned out very well. But say another kid was spanked just as much as I was and turned out completely f*cked up. It all depends on what type of person you are, and there are a great many people here arguing their cases. I have a friend who was never spanked and is still a little spoiled because of it. I also have a friend who was never spanked and is really outgoing on life, but doesn't have a whole lot of confidence and has some trust issues. It depends on what kind of person you are from the start. The tests you are following probably don't go this deep, or maybe they do and you just fail to acknowledge it? From what I've seen you've been strictly, "Spanking is almost always bad." and that's it.

You are talking about specific individuals. I speak from a sociological view of social trends. A kid raised abusively is more likely to have issues in life than a kid who isn't raised abusively that is a fact.

[ghost-]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

You are talking about specific individuals. I speak from a sociological view of social trends. A kid raised abusively is more likely to have issues in life than a kid who isn't raised abusively that is a fact.

True good sir, yet we're talking about spanking here.

[kmay]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

like i said. there is a differnce between abusing your child and spanking them.

[awein999]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

like i said. there is a differnce between abusing your child and spanking them.

Give me an example of when spanking is not abusive.

abusive:
1. expressing offensive reproach
2. characterized by physical or psychological maltreatment

[Reincarnate]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

Rubix. there is no right or wrong to this. there are several studies that show how wrong it is and several that show how much more effective it is.

Orly

Feel free to show me the uberconclusive evidence that supports the contrary view... because if you can, you'd be making pretty massive waves in the psychology arena.

Abuse, which is what seems happened to you, is not spanking. iirc. stop being ignorant to the fact that it is a productive form of controlling the child. if used well, as in not everyday, and only when the child did something worthy of it. cursing, a bar of soap suffices, but i dont see how a time-out will make a child see how wrong it is too beat someone up. didnt teach my sister.

its like a sentence for jail. the crime commited leads to the sentence. the deed that was done by the child has a punishment for it as well.

these things you describe aren't great fixes. punishment like you're describing are only short-term solutions. Yes, punishing a kid by putting soap in his mouth will shut him up. Yes, spanking someone is a form of controlling. But it is a confusing thing to understand for a child. If you spank a child for throwing a tantrum, it doesn't understand why it shouldn't have been throwing a tantrum in the first place -- and you also teach that aggression is an OK solution to problems. Not only does spanking tend to lessen in its effectiveness the more you do it, but it also makes disciplining that much harder once a child "outgrows" spanking.

you can't say that "i'm ignorant of the fact that it's a productive way of controlling the child" -- are you serious? It is by no means a productive way to control the child. if anything, you are ignorant of the merits of positive reinforcement.

[AsphyxZero]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

OMG you guys.

Spanking does NOT ****ing work. Stop saying that. All it does is cause you to be submissive and fearful and it usually causes residual psychological damage and deeply-rooted abuse/trust issues. It's like trying to pull weeds by painfully chopping off the tops when there are usually safer ways to get at the roots that are ultimately more effective and less harmful.

Yeah have any of you actually been spanked or abused? NOT THE WAY TO GO.

[virus003]

Re: What does it take for kids to learn?

Bix your overconfidence is getting the best of you, and you rely on statistics too much. You need to relax. You think statistics have all the answers in the world.

Yeah that proactive completely cleared up my face! It's statistically proven

nooooot

That was the easiest example I could think of

Just because you were spanked a lot when you were little, doesn't make you that kind of person, it's just a feeling of power you have I'd assume. My brother said he got spanked a loooot when he was little, and it seems he forgot about it, he goes to Fullerton State. Him and my parents are still having a great connection. You live and forget over time if you ask me