Athiest sign

[Tokzic]

Re: Athiest sign

I love how all these Christians are whining about being persecuted.

How does the stance on the sign persecute Christians any more than anyone else? Oh wait, it doesn't. In fact, it doesn't "persecute" anyone. It's not nearly as "persecuting" as saying to an atheist that they're going to hell, as sausage-dude did, and that's not even offensive or negative at all to an atheist. It's about as meaningful as saying "if you don't believe in my personal set of beliefs the Great Unicorn Overseer Xegon will impale you with his Horn of Judgment". You're just going to come across as nonsensical.

Atheists are perfectly in their right to state their beliefs publicly, as are Christians. I believe in what the sign has to say, and it should definitely remain where it is as a sign that religion cannot suppress anything said against it. Get used to it, Christians, you don't own the country.

[All_That_Chaz]

Re: Athiest sign

I think it's probably how the sign is worded that's causing a lot of the problems. If it instead said something like, "We believe in only what is supported by empirical evidence," instead of basically saying, "All this junk is wrong," then there wouldn't be as bad of a controversy, but maybe not.

I personally think this sign is pretty dumb and shouldn't be there. The reason? It's a holiday display and the sign they put up has nothing to do with the holidays. The holidays are, however loosely, based on religion. Sure people can believe whatever they want but this sign is just reactionary trolling that really strikes me like vandalism, as if someone came up with spray paint and wrote "u mrons r so stupid god duznt exist lol" on a nativity scene.

And Tokzic, you're right, nobody has the right to suppress the beliefs of atheists, but this sign is tactless and pointless. I don't see why it needs to be there.

Oh by the way I don't believe in God so don't label me a crazy Christian or whatever.

Oh and the Jews didn't think Jesus was all that. And I think Muslims care more about someone who came later. Maybe Mormons too, I'm not an expert.

EDIT: And I only said that I don't believe in God because I didn't want people to assume that I was defending my own religion. I'm just being objective. I have no problems with what people choose to believe in.

[Izzy]

Re: Athiest sign

I agree with tokzic, but this sign is still pointless. I really doubt any athiest gives a **** about trying to suppress christians.

[Minion133]

Re: Athiest sign

gay

[Chaosvermin]

Re: Athiest sign

Ahh the true greatness of religion, it's so loving of all people

[Squeek]

Re: Athiest sign

I think it's probably how the sign is worded that's causing a lot of the problems. If it instead said something like, "We believe in only what is supported by empirical evidence," instead of basically saying, "All this junk is wrong," then there wouldn't be as bad of a controversy, but maybe not.

I think how the Bible is worded causes a lot of problems. You don't see me complaining about the rape, murder, slavery, death, and destruction that takes place in it.

I personally think this sign is pretty dumb and shouldn't be there. The reason? It's a holiday display and the sign they put up has nothing to do with the holidays. The holidays are, however loosely, based on religion. Sure people can believe whatever they want but this sign is just reactionary trolling that really strikes me like vandalism, as if someone came up with spray paint and wrote "u mrons r so stupid god duznt exist lol" on a nativity scene.

I think the Christmas Tree is pretty dumb and shouldn't be there. Why are they including pagan rituals in their religion? I thought the point was to celebrate the birth of some celebrity duder, not to decorate a pine tree.

And Tokzic, you're right, nobody has the right to suppress the beliefs of atheists, but this sign is tactless and pointless. I don't see why it needs to be there.

Again, you're missing the point. It's a religious symbol. If you can claim a Christmas Tree is a religious symbol, athiests can easily claim a piece of paper with words on it is a religious symbol. Religions make this stuff up all the time. Nothing new. It's only offensive when someone other than a Christian does it, though.

I see Christian signs telling me to redeem myself or suffer eternal damnation. Now, that's not very nice either. But that's part of their beliefs. I'm not going to whine or try to take it down or anything. I'll just use it as an amusing anecdote later that day.

[Afrobean]

Re: Athiest sign

I think the Christmas Tree is pretty dumb and shouldn't be there. Why are they including pagan rituals in their religion? I thought the point was to celebrate the birth of some celebrity duder, not to decorate a pine tree.

You're right.

We PAGANS should take back the solstice. **** your fatman present giving saint. Let's get drunk and ****.

[Syhto]

Re: Athiest sign

Just because of the sign's location, you're acting like it only affects Christians. But if you look closely it's flat out saying all religions enslave your mind and we're all completely wrong. I don't think this discussion is really a matter of Christian vs. The Atheists, but rather atheists against everyone else. (with exceptions)

If the signs about sending you into eternal damnation and through hellfire and etc were just as blatantly out of place, then I would consider that kind of tactless as well. You can look at this situation from as many angles as you please, but it doesn't change how people are. People are obviously going to be upset by this display. Just because "you guys wouldn't get angry if that happened to you", or whatever bull**** that was said, it doesn't make it alright. People are different. People believe differently because they are different. Christians are in general going to be more sensitive than a damn atheist.

Really to me this is more about simply being considerate.

[tha Guardians]

Re: Athiest sign

This is stupid.
I don't believe in God, but hey, let people enjoy their f***ing holidays!! Christians don't go up to you during National God is Dead Day and mess with you, do they?

K, so that's not a real holiday, but who cares.
This is ridiculous.

Merry Christmas, everyone.
Happy Jewday, too.

I agree with tokzic, but this sign is still pointless. I really doubt any athiest gives a **** about trying to suppress christians.

In August I got a message from a guy on Facebook. He was trying to recruit me to a "Free Though" Group in North Alabama. I went to the site and every idiot there hates Christians and not only don't believe in God, etc., they disbelieve in and try to disprove God, etc. They're more stubborn than any theists, if you ask me.

Agnostics of the world, unite!

[emochick2009]

Re: Athiest sign

You're right.

We PAGANS should take back the solstice. **** your fatman present giving saint. Let's get drunk and ****.

I agree with this!! I find it rather ammusing that "all pagans are going to hell" and yet they use our celebrations.

[Squeek]

Re: Athiest sign

This is stupid.
I don't believe in God, but hey, let people enjoy their f***ing holidays!! Christians don't go up to you during National God is Dead Day and mess with you, do they?

K, so that's not a real holiday, but who cares.
This is ridiculous.

Merry Christmas, everyone.
Happy Jewday, too.

Christians mess with athiests more than you could ever imagine.

Sure, there aren't signs like 'atheists suck lol', but there are far worse things.

You're still missing the point here. Just because atheism is a "religion" of anti-religion doesn't mean it's wrong. You know what else is a federally-recognized religion? Scientology. So all Scientology symbols can go up right next to your cross, your tree, your nativity scene, etc. Praise Xenu?

Christianity isn't the only answer. This entire debate is an exercise in tolerance. If you can't tolerate a little mud-slinging, as mentioned before, you lack faith, which is the cornerstone of religion.

Let's try an article where the people behind this actually speak up, rather than "item was stolen, oh no!" articles.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/12/05/atheists.christmas/index.html

Dan Barker, a former evangelical preacher and co-founder of the group, said it was important for atheists to see their viewpoints validated alongside everyone else's.

Barker said the display is especially important given that 25 percent of Washington state residents are unaffiliated with religion or do not believe in God. (A recent survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found 23 percent of Washingtonians said they were unaffiliated with a religion and 7 percent said they didn't believe in God.)

"It's not that we are trying to coerce anyone; in a way our sign is a signal of protest," Barker said. "If there can be a Nativity scene saying that we are all going to hell if we don't bow down to Jesus, we should be at the table to share our views."

He said if anything, it's the Nativity scene that is the intrusion.

"Most people think December is for Christians and view our signs as an intrusion, when actually it's the other way around," he said. "People have been celebrating the winter solstice long before Christmas. We see Christianity as the intruder, trying to steal the holiday from all of us humans."

The anger over the display in Olympia began after it was assembled Monday. The sentiment grew after some national media personalities called upon viewers to flood the phone lines of the governor's office.

The governor's office told The Seattle Times it received more than 200 calls an hour afterward.

"I happen to be a Christian, and I don't agree with the display that is up there," Washington Gov. Christine Gregoire told The Olympian newspaper. "But that doesn't mean that as governor, I have the right to deny their ability to express their free speech."

For some, the issue isn't even that the atheists are putting their thoughts on display, but rather the way in which they are doing it.

"They are shooting themselves in the foot," said iReport contributor Rich Phillips, who describes himself as an atheist. "Everyone's out there for the holidays, trying to represent their religion, their beliefs, and it's a time to be positive."

The atheist message was never intended to attack anyone, Barker said.

"When people ask us, 'Why are you hateful? Why are you putting up something critical of people's holidays? -- we respond that we kind of feel that the Christian message is the hate message," he said. "On that Nativity scene, there is this threat of internal violence if we don't submit to that master. Hate speech goes both ways."

[Izzy]

Re: Athiest sign

In August I got a message from a guy on Facebook. He was trying to recruit me to a "Free Though" Group in North Alabama. I went to the site and every idiot there hates Christians and not only don't believe in God, etc., they disbelieve in and try to disprove God, etc. They're more stubborn than any theists, if you ask me.

Agnostics of the world, unite!

I don't see how that's being stubborn. Just don't go there? problem solved.

[All_That_Chaz]

Re: Athiest sign

I think how the Bible is worded causes a lot of problems. You don't see me complaining about the rape, murder, slavery, death, and destruction that takes place in it.

And I don't like when Bible verses are put on billboards. There's a difference between believing something and showcasing those beliefs in a way that's meant to criticize those that believe differently.

I think the Christmas Tree is pretty dumb and shouldn't be there. Why are they including pagan rituals in their religion? I thought the point was to celebrate the birth of some celebrity duder, not to decorate a pine tree.

The Christmas Tree, for whatever reason, is part of the tradition of the holiday. The Atheist sign is not part of the Christmas tradition. It's not even related to the religion that celebrates it. It doesn't express any sort of thoughts on the holiday. I don't see how you can equate the two.

Again, you're missing the point. It's a religious symbol. If you can claim a Christmas Tree is a religious symbol, athiests can easily claim a piece of paper with words on it is a religious symbol. Religions make this stuff up all the time. Nothing new. It's only offensive when someone other than a Christian does it, though.

I see Christian signs telling me to redeem myself or suffer eternal damnation. Now, that's not very nice either. But that's part of their beliefs. I'm not going to whine or try to take it down or anything. I'll just use it as an amusing anecdote later that day.

I'm going to go ahead and say that's hogwash. A piece of paper some dude scribbled on two days ago and taped to a nativity scene is not a religious symbol. And don't just say that the Bible was basically that because Christians think that is the written word of God, which makes it special. Was that document written by the almighty... man? Is everything an atheist writes a religious document? I think that's just plain silly and a slippery slope.

It doesn't even matter if it is a religious symbol. It's misplaced. The only reason for it to be there is to upset Christians on Christmas, which is in poor taste. If Atheism is a real religion let the truly devout make their own holiday where they plaster their message all over the town.

[bluguerrilla]

Re: Athiest sign

If Atheism is a real religion let the truly devout make their own holiday where they plaster their message all over the town.

You don't celebrate "Roll your rock up a hill and then when it rolls down the hill, roll it back up" day?

[Squeek]

Re: Athiest sign

And who are you to say what is and what isn't a religious symbol?

Also, it's not a scribbled note. It's a massive 50-pound framed document.

And finally, they're not celebrating Christmas (or de-celebrating I guess?). They're celebrating the Winter Solstice, which just happens to fall two days before Christmas.