FFR & The Human Potential

[Izzy]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

I am not arguing. I am telling you because you are wrong. I don't care what the games look like. You are hitting 4 arrows on both of them.

The physical and mental aspects of the game are very similar if not the same, ffr just lacks accuracy and quality.

[[TeRa]]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

It's a 30 FPS game.
There are 3 perfect window, 3 good windows, and 1 av window.
In total, there are 7 frames in which you can hit an arrow, which is 7/30ths of a second.

[OrganisM]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

I am not arguing. I am telling you because you are wrong. I don't care what the games look like. You are hitting 4 arrows on both of them.

The physical and mental aspects of the game are very similar if not the same, ffr just lacks accuracy and quality.

The feel of the game is entirely different. That's like saying racquetball and tennis are the same game because you hit a ball around.

You have a very strong sense of wrong and right; too bad you have no sense in general.

I don't have arguments. I only make corrections, because I am always right.

Seriously, how ****ing arrogant is that?

[Izzy]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

I didn't say that or imply that. What you get out of my text is up to your personal judgment.

I don't know where you are getting that, but in this case i am only making a very simple statement that is true and not debatable. Sorry.

[OrganisM]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

Anything is debatable, but nevermind that. It's alright. Don't you worry, there's no such thing as disagreements here. Everything will be okay, and everyone will agree. No silly business like difference of opinion. That can lead to arguments, and that would be very bad. People could get hurt that way. Maybe it's best if we all just believe the same thing. Yes, black and white thinking is best.

[Nightfirecat]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

It's true EVERYONE has a different maximum limit in skill than anyone else, no one will ever reach that maximum but there is at SOME point in playing this that physics causes a solid limit to what a human in general can do. So yes there IS in fact a physical limit to what humans' can do.

What he said. Physics puts a limit on how much movement we as humans can put into FFR/SM, so eventually, yes, we will be stopped from improving, but it's so hard to get there, that nobody has done it... yet.

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

What he said. Physics puts a limit on how much movement we as humans can put into FFR/SM, so eventually, yes, we will be stopped from improving, but it's so hard to get there, that nobody has done it... yet.

It is possible to calculate scientifically/mathematically how well you will do on the next run if the movement of all energy/mass forms within the entire system (body, external information etc.) are comprehended. Of course, it is not humanly or technologically possible to do that, but what I am saying is, there is always a limit. That limit is already predetermined by the flow of all energy and mass.

If I may say so further, the entire future is already predestined. Not by terms of divine fate or some kind of unknown metaphysical power, but by actual physics, and the motion of all mass and energy. If the motion of all forms of mass and energy throughout the universe could be calculated instantaneously through the knowledge of basic physics/chemistry, you can predict everything that will happen in the universe for the entire future. Once again, not humanly or technologically possible, but nothing can change the motion of forces (unless if you truly believe that divine intervention/metaphysical power exists... but even they are caused by something, and act in reaction to something else, which could be calculated as well). Unpredictable is a term that coincides with humanly/technologically unpredictable, but if all laws of the universe were completely understood, and could be instantaneously calculated, there is nothing that is unpredictable. Everything is caused by something else, and everything causes something else. That cause/effect relationship follows a strict rule, and everything is predetermined in that sense. There are no uncertainty factors when you get down to the smallest degree of physical comprehension.

There is a limit. Done.

There are threads about human will etc. as well, but I obviously believe that human will is nothing more than another factor that is caused by something, and produces something else. Your "choice" is caused by external information which triggers internal functions, which creates a result. There is no "free will" in the sense that you can transcend the laws of physics in making your own decision.

The terms "possibility/probability" are terms that evaluate human/technological uncertainties. Everything is always 100% positively going to happen. We just don't have the means of calculating it that far, which leaves us with human/technological uncertainties.

Down with the science. You cannot change your future. If you think you are changing your future, science is doing it for you in a manner that coincides with what you want. It's an illusion. If you want to feel almighty and invincible, go ahead and think that humans are limitless. That's just how weak humans are. Which is why I hate them (and me. I am human too.) and this worldly system.

I'm not saying optimism is a bad thing. I'm not saying that thinking you will do better next time is a bad thing. Optimism is just another effect from another cause. Human emotion and thought process are both another of infinite effects caused by our internal mechanisms and external influence. I am saying that these thoughts are ok UNDER THE GIVEN KNOWLEDGE that you and every part of you are just a small itty bitty effect of numerous effects that flow under the law of science. Humans are not invincible, supernatural, or divine. Every single thing that you can think of, including your thoughts, why the sky is blue, why I'm typing this, why you're reading this, and why you just got 3024 0 0 1 on Pants, is all a series of completely unchangeable effects of the flow of physics from the start of the universal system/flow.

Hello CT.

The term "divine power" comes in ONLY when the beginning of universal law is explained, because it is unexplainable as to how this system/flow was started/created. Which is why blaming "God" for the cause of everything isn't completely irrelevant, because the definition of "God" is the cause of the universal flow. "God" does not act "now". "God" acted in the beginning of the universe. "God" is a concept. "God" is a term given to nothing human, nothing with shape form or function. "God" is a mere idea that fills in the incomprehensible origin of the universal flow under which we are trapped as entities no different from a nearby air molecule, or a picoscopic string, or the motion of the galaxies.

The universe is a string of causes. The warp of space caused a picoscopic string to move. A picoscopic string caused the movement of another picoscopic string. The group of picoscopic strings caused the movement of a quark. The group of quarks caused the movement of a subatomic particle. The group of subatomic particles caused the movement of an atom. The group of atoms caused the movement of a molecule. The group of molecules caused the movement of an organism's thought process. The thought process caused a physical reaction. The physical reaction caused another entity to respond. That response causes another response. Eternal cycle, until the last cause causes its own destruction. But, destruction is another cause for something perhaps not comprehensible on these planes of dimensions. You can go on and on about the possibilities, but I'm a mere human, without the ability to comprehend all of the universe at once. Which is why I can only speculate. Which is why there are uncertainties.

I should stop editing now, because I'm repeating the same thing over and over again from a different perspective.

[ledwix]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

It is possible to calculate scientifically/mathematically how well you will do on the next run if the movement of all energy/mass forms within the entire system (body, external information etc.) are comprehended. Of course, it is not humanly or technologically possible to do that, but what I am saying is, there is always a limit. That limit is already predetermined by the flow of all energy and mass.

If I may say so further, the entire future is already predestined. Not by terms of divine fate or some kind of unknown metaphysical power, but by actual physics, and the motion of all mass and energy. If the motion of all forms of mass and energy throughout the universe could be calculated instantaneously through the knowledge of basic physics/chemistry, you can predict everything that will happen in the universe for the entire future. Once again, not humanly or technologically possible, but nothing can change the motion of forces (unless if you truly believe that divine intervention/metaphysical power exists... but even they are caused by something, and act in reaction to something else, which could be calculated as well). Unpredictable is a term that coincides with humanly/technologically unpredictable, but if all laws of the universe were completely understood, and could be instantaneously calculated, there is nothing that is unpredictable. Everything is caused by something else, and everything causes something else. That cause/effect relationship follows a strict rule, and everything is predetermined in that sense. There are no uncertainty factors when you get down to the smallest degree of physical comprehension.



There is a limit. Done.

There are threads about human will etc. as well, but I obviously believe that human will is nothing more than another factor that is caused by something, and produces something else. Your "choice" is caused by external information which triggers internal functions, which creates a result. There is no "free will" in the sense that you can transcend the laws of physics in making your own decision.

The terms "possibility/probability" are terms that evaluate human/technological uncertainties. Everything is always 100% positively going to happen. We just don't have the means of calculating it that far, which leaves us with human/technological uncertainties.

Down with the science. You cannot change your future. If you think you are changing your future, science is doing it for you in a manner that coincides with what you want. It's an illusion. If you want to feel almighty and invincible, go ahead and think that humans are limitless. That's just how weak humans are. Which is why I hate them (and me. I am human too.) and this worldly system.

The term "divine power" comes in ONLY when the beginning of universal law is explained, because it is unexplainable as to how this system/flow was started/created. Which is why blaming "God" for the cause of everything isn't completely irrelevant, because the definition of "God" is the cause of the universal flow. "God" does not act "now". "God" acted in the beginning of the universe. "God" is a concept. "God" is a term given to nothing human, nothing with shape form or function. "God" is a mere idea that fills in the incomprehensible origin of the universal flow under which we are trapped as entities no different from a nearby air molecule, or a picoscopic string, or the motion of the galaxies.

Well, goodness, I suppose this is the year 2238492784927942742374 already? Even if it was the year 90000000000000999990000 times a googolplex to the googolplex power, we still wouldn't have figured everything out. How do you gain all knowledge of every single particle? You'd have to find the properties of all material imaginable, and to do that, you'd have to search and examine every last shred of matter in the universe. Not only would you have to examine every existent animal under a microscope, but get to the bottom of what the soul is, or lack thereof in your understanding, probably; basically what it is that keeps our desires and emotions going in the states of going in and out of consciousness. I understand your position, but to be using such an immensely humanistic perspective at this primitive day an age is a little arrogant. We can't yet predict our futures. It's really, really interesting that you believe our futures are predestined. I sort of believe it, too, except I still believe we have the free will to shape our own destinies, and that thinking about what our destiny might be is a complete paradox that only distracts us.

And even if we were to somehow traverse everything and study everything to within quantum range, that's still enormous. We know that observing stuff messes with the results, so there's gotta be complete uncertainty with anything smaller than a photon. And of course, if we want to know the position/location of every particle, then the photon becomes a gigantic distraction. And besides, the fact that we're observing it ourselves leads us to foggy conclusions. We'd have to know about ourselves too and assume a completely humanistic philosophy. There aren't any laws of physics, nor will there ever be time for us to discover them, that tell us how we make every single decision under our own free will, while the 99.99999etc% of matter can't make its own decisions.

I don't think our decisions are particularly controlled by laws of physics or that we are acting in a completely reactionary fashion 100% of the time. I can choose to walk up the stairs regularly or walk up backwards, walk up on my hands, hop each step, run up and down the steps 20 times and be late to class, etc. And there would be no indication that either behavior were necessary, nor any prediction we could formulate any time soon. Even if I was not bored at all, didn't feel like getting a workout, was tired and lazy, there was no one around to watch, or tons of people around to watch, I could do any of those things at my own discretion, without exception. Expect extinction long before we can think about that, if it's even possible.


And well, if causes go back infinitely (true infinity, not potential infinity), then we don't exist right now. But we do.

[robertsona]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

POLLS ARE ALL TIED UP
ps ill never get good at ffr

[igotrhythm]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

Everybody has a different maximum potential, and nobody has actually achieved their maximum potential. So you can always get better, but you may not be able to go as far as someone else who is just naturally more able.

Was going to read the entire thread, but hi19 just summed up my point.

While I don't doubt that some songs like CP may never be AAAed, the fact that one can improve with practice has driven me to accomplish things I never thought I could do (I still remember the days where I had a mental block on Boss Machine at about 100 combo while going for the FC, but lo and behold, I've AAAed it), but there will always be someone better than me.

On the other hand, every test has a ceiling, and I'm sure some of us remember the days when Rubix had the top rank on every public song in the game and we hailed him as the new king of FFR, but that was before Shash made his epic comeback.

To sum up, there's a reason that the US Army's motto used to go something like "Be all that you can be" instead of "Be the best." Everyone has a different ceiling, and some of us, like myself, may have reached it without attaining the heights that people like Jimerax have.

By the way, I voted "no" in the poll. If I believed even for one minute that events beyond my control could limit how good I could get at something, I'd go insane before I even gave it a shot.

[ledwix]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

In response to that, I think Midday's point about there being a definite destiny for every one of us is a valid one. There's a limit for everyone, but it's unknown. Your genetics are obviously beyond your control, and so are the laws that govern how your fingers, eyes, and brain move and work. So while the limit is not infinite, but finite and clearly defined somewhere off in the distance, it is unknown and therefore useless to think about. Think of it as potentially infinite, but certainly not actually infinite. But there is definitely some set unknown limit to how much skill anyone can gain anywhere.

[Patashu]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

btw

I don't know if skill increase is asymptotic because someone always seems to be getting better

there's a limit but it's a function of the perfect configuration of both stepmania player and computer using all the matter and useful work in the visible universe so no one will ever reach it
given that we're still humans and still using electronic computers and all we have for matter and energy is the earth and steady input from the sun we're not even close

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Re: FFR & The Human Potential

Well, goodness, I suppose this is the year 2238492784927942742374 already? Even if it was the year 90000000000000999990000 times a googolplex to the googolplex power, we still wouldn't have figured everything out. How do you gain all knowledge of every single particle? You'd have to find the properties of all material imaginable, and to do that, you'd have to search and examine every last shred of matter in the universe. Not only would you have to examine every existent animal under a microscope, but get to the bottom of what the soul is, or lack thereof in your understanding, probably; basically what it is that keeps our desires and emotions going in the states of going in and out of consciousness. I understand your position, but to be using such an immensely humanistic perspective at this primitive day an age is a little arrogant. We can't yet predict our futures. It's really, really interesting that you believe our futures are predestined. I sort of believe it, too, except I still believe we have the free will to shape our own destinies, and that thinking about what our destiny might be is a complete paradox that only distracts us.

And even if we were to somehow traverse everything and study everything to within quantum range, that's still enormous. We know that observing stuff messes with the results, so there's gotta be complete uncertainty with anything smaller than a photon. And of course, if we want to know the position/location of every particle, then the photon becomes a gigantic distraction. And besides, the fact that we're observing it ourselves leads us to foggy conclusions. We'd have to know about ourselves too and assume a completely humanistic philosophy. There aren't any laws of physics, nor will there ever be time for us to discover them, that tell us how we make every single decision under our own free will, while the 99.99999etc% of matter can't make its own decisions.

I don't think our decisions are particularly controlled by laws of physics or that we are acting in a completely reactionary fashion 100% of the time. I can choose to walk up the stairs regularly or walk up backwards, walk up on my hands, hop each step, run up and down the steps 20 times and be late to class, etc. And there would be no indication that either behavior were necessary, nor any prediction we could formulate any time soon. Even if I was not bored at all, didn't feel like getting a workout, was tired and lazy, there was no one around to watch, or tons of people around to watch, I could do any of those things at my own discretion, without exception. Expect extinction long before we can think about that, if it's even possible.


And well, if causes go back infinitely (true infinity, not potential infinity), then we don't exist right now. But we do.

I said it was humanly impossible <_<

The choice that you make is caused by a chemical reaction. Chemical reactions are not caused by your own "will" unless if you believe that you have some supernatural force that controls the law of physics and causes some chemicals to go that way to react so you can make that exact decision. All decision-making is scientifically induced. Decision-making is a mere motion of electric signals in the brain that react to the environment/given situation.

If the cause of an original loop is a cycle, then there you have a not infinite yet infinite causality process there. Therefore, I believe that "existence" is perpetual. Existence is generated by nothing, yet it maintains itself. Perfect example of perpetual property.

[ledwix]

Re: FFR &amp; The Human Potential

If existence is perpetual, then it's an infinite spiral. The cycle still has to start somewhere, though, doesn't it? Since time appears linear 100% of the time in our common perception of it, (and has never appeared cyclical in any understanding of the dimension) then if it is indeed cyclical there must be some substantial indicator as to why that is the case, even contrary to popular evidence. If we are to take this idea at face value, then we must still ponder when time, the proposed "curled up" dimension, starts over. At what points, then, does time "start over?" And if time does start over, then we should see a cosmos that has the potential to collapse. Also, if existence is generated by nothing, then nothing should also be able to be generated by existence. In other words, matter can be created and destroyed, not just created, which would invoke instability in any cyclical universe theory.

And if choice is nothing more than a complicated version of some chemical components reacting, we must be able to gauge what choice every single person will make in every single case, without exception. If for the sake of realism it's possible to devise such a theory, it would take much longer than we have time for. I think we'll die out as a species in the next few thousand years due to wars and stuff. Even if we had eons, it still might not be enough time.

For clarification, a supernatural force does not have to directly intervene with chemicals in order for a person to still have free will. In fact, complete free will and dualism outside of the realm of humanism doesn't quite necessitate a deity. But eh, I hope I didn't ignore any of your points. Really tired now, sorry if I did.

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Re: FFR &amp; The Human Potential

If existence is perpetual, then it's an infinite spiral. The cycle still has to start somewhere, though, doesn't it? Since time appears linear 100% of the time in our common perception of it, (and has never appeared cyclical in any understanding of the dimension) then if it is indeed cyclical there must be some substantial indicator as to why that is the case, even contrary to popular evidence. If we are to take this idea at face value, then we must still ponder when time, the proposed "curled up" dimension, starts over. At what points, then, does time "start over?" And if time does start over, then we should see a cosmos that has the potential to collapse.

And if choice is nothing more than a complicated version of some chemical components reacting, we must be able to gauge what choice every single person will make in every single case, without exception. If for the sake of realism it's possible to devise such a theory, it would take much longer than we have time for. I think we'll die out as a species in the next few thousand years due to wars and stuff. Even if we had eons, it still might not be enough time.

For clarification, a supernatural force does not have to directly intervene with chemicals in order for a person to still have free will. In fact, complete free will and dualism outside of the realm of humanism doesn't quite necessitate a deity.

supernatural=transcends nature, ie the scientific laws of reasoning or the restrictions of physical limitation. i am not talking about divination or religion.

I am not saying humans will be able to predict the future using science. Humans are stupid. No can do.

I am only using the example of choice, as an effect of environmental situation/internal bodily processes, to demonstrate my understanding of predestination.

Free will does not exist. What seems like free will is caused only by the interaction of matter and energy.

If you are saying that free will is NOT matter or energy, then you are saying it is supernatural. I am saying humans are NOT supernatural. If you agree with me that free will is part of matter or energy, then you are agreeing with me that it is subject to physical law.

Hi ledwix. =)

As for existence being perpetual: That came out of nowhere. I don't have anything to support this idea. It is more like a whimsical expression of feeling.