Banned for Wanting Grammar!

[Chrissi]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

Did you not hear me?

I said english isn't their native language. Which probably means they moved here at an older age.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

I know exceptionally smart people with incredibly bad grammar on MSN. When I ask why they don't try to type properly, I get the answer 'I'm getting my point across, and in the end, that's what communication is all about'. Which is a very good point.

Except that they fail to account for the necessity of efficiency in communication, especially in a fast-paced, text-only medium like the internet.

Yes, you can communicate your point in ten seconds, but it's only detrimental to everybody if you and your audience has to spend sixty seconds trying to decode it.

Rather, I'd prefer everyone to take eleven seconds to communicate in a grammatical sense so that everyone understands exactly what is intended without question or confusion. It's better for everyone that way.

Commas, apostrophes, and grammar rules weren't invented just to give seventh graders a hard time; they exist because they are necessary to avoid confusion. Without even the smallest mark you can confuse your audience and create a frustrating situation just because you're lazy.

You'll excuse me if I don't cater to your sloth.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[MalReynolds]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

For example:

She had a crack baby.

vs.

She had a crack, baby.

[Magewout]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

Except that they fail to account for the necessity of efficiency in communication, especially in a fast-paced, text-only medium like the internet.

Yes, you can communicate your point in ten seconds, but it's only detrimental to everybody if you and your audience has to spend sixty seconds trying to decode it.

Rather, I'd prefer everyone to take eleven seconds to communicate in a grammatical sense so that everyone understands exactly what is intended without question or confusion. It's better for everyone that way.

Commas, apostrophes, and grammar rules weren't invented just to give seventh graders a hard time; they exist because they are necessary to avoid confusion. Without even the smallest mark you can confuse your audience and create a frustrating situation just because you're lazy.

You'll excuse me if I don't cater to your sloth.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

If i write without perfct grammer / spelling but its still understandable enuff for u 2 kno what im tryin to say i really really dont see the problem at all.

You're not going to tell me you didn't understand above sentence, or that you had to 'decode' that, right? I can understand it when there's a total absence of any kind of sentence structure and the likes, but abbreviated words shouldn't be a problem, especially if English is your native language.

@MalReynolds: I facepalmed. Yeah, let's list ten cases where the comma does matter versus the millions of others where it doesn't.

PS: You might notice that I myself am trying to type in decent English, but that's my personal choice. I expect people to respect my choices and therefore I try to respect others when they choose to not give priority to their grammar.

[Squeek]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

If i write without perfct grammer / spelling but its still understandable enuff for u 2 kno what im tryin to say i really really dont see the problem at all.

translation: If igneous rocks write without perfection controlled timing gamer / spelling but International Treatise of Spelling still understandable snuff for Uganda two knowledge what Imps train to say igneous rocks really duplicate words done see the problem at all.

How do I know if you shortened a word or made a typo? How do I know some of the words you wrote aren't acronyms or just words you wrote without punctuation? Since I don't know, I filled in some of blanks as my mind saw fit.

If you've ever tried to translate a foreign language with a typo, here's a protip. It's impossible. So don't even give me that "English isn't their first language" bull. We have the sub-clause in place that says ESOL kids are the exception here, but I have never seen an ESOL kid purposely butcher a language he's learning just to "look cool" or "save time".

@MalReynolds: I facepalmed. Yeah, let's list ten cases where the comma does matter versus the millions of others where it doesn't.

How, about, the, case, of, the, super, annoying, sentence, with, commas, after, every, single, word? Where, is, the, proper, comma, in, this, sentence? Is, there, one? Isn't, this, annoying, to, read? You, probably, think, this, is, just, a, joke. I, wish, I, never, saw, a, post, like, this, before, but, I, have.

PS: You might notice that I myself am trying to type in decent English, but that's my personal choice. I expect people to respect my choices and therefore I try to respect others when they choose to not give priority to their grammar.

Then I don't see why you don't respect the choice of the authority that runs these forums. The rule of spelling/grammar is just as arbitrary as the rule of no double-posting. It's a conduct rule. If you can't spell properly, you aren't 13. I absolutely cannot imagine a situation where an English-speaking user has any kind of excuse as to why they cannot write properly.

Why is that? Because this is a forum. It's not a chat room. You have literally all the time in the world to make a post. Pop it into Word! Use FireFox's spell-check! There are dozens of things you can do before you post anything that will automatically fix most of your errors.

[s0ulst0n3]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

How about the case of the super annoying sentence with commas after every single word? Where is the proper comma in this sentence? Is there one? Isn't this annoying to read? You probably think this is just a joke. I wish I never saw a post like this before, but I have.

After the word "before" is where the proper comma belongs, am I correct? Also yes, I have seen posts like that before. Those sentences are very annoying to read.

Why is that? Because this is a forum. It's not a chat room. You have literally all the time in the world to make a post. Pop it into Word! Use FireFox's spell-check! There are dozens of things you can do before you post anything that will automatically fix most of your errors.

I had to quote this for emphasis.

[MalReynolds]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

My example was a joke.

It was a joke!

Here's another:

I wish your sorry-ass face would get out of here.

vs.

I wish your sorry ass-face would get out of here.

[devonin]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

The classic example for importance of proper capitalization also:

I helped my uncle Jack off a horse

I helped my uncle jack off a horse

[Magewout]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

translation: If igneous rocks write without perfection controlled timing gamer / spelling but International Treatise of Spelling still understandable snuff for Uganda two knowledge what Imps train to say igneous rocks really duplicate words done see the problem at all.

How do I know if you shortened a word or made a typo? How do I know some of the words you wrote aren't acronyms or just words you wrote without punctuation? Since I don't know, I filled in some of blanks as my mind saw fit.

If you've ever tried to translate a foreign language with a typo, here's a protip. It's impossible. So don't even give me that "English isn't their first language" bull. We have the sub-clause in place that says ESOL kids are the exception here, but I have never seen an ESOL kid purposely butcher a language he's learning just to "look cool" or "save time".



How, about, the, case, of, the, super, annoying, sentence, with, commas, after, every, single, word? Where, is, the, proper, comma, in, this, sentence? Is, there, one? Isn't, this, annoying, to, read? You, probably, think, this, is, just, a, joke. I, wish, I, never, saw, a, post, like, this, before, but, I, have.



Then I don't see why you don't respect the choice of the authority that runs these forums. The rule of spelling/grammar is just as arbitrary as the rule of no double-posting. It's a conduct rule. If you can't spell properly, you aren't 13. I absolutely cannot imagine a situation where an English-speaking user has any kind of excuse as to why they cannot write properly.

Why is that? Because this is a forum. It's not a chat room. You have literally all the time in the world to make a post. Pop it into Word! Use FireFox's spell-check! There are dozens of things you can do before you post anything that will automatically fix most of your errors.

You know damn well what that sentence said. Exaggerating doesn't make a valid point since I can do that with a proper sentence as well.

I'd like to call bs on your protip. If you have a proper understanding of the language, most of the time you'll know whether it's a typo or not. You can get a lot of information out of the context. I'm doubting whether you have ever tried to translate a foreign language. The "English isn't their first language bull", as you call it, is nevertheless very correct. If even native speakers make mistakes to it's/its and they're/their/there, it's unfair to expect from everyone that they don't make mistakes, and to some people it might seem very rude to correct every mistake they make.

As for the commas, I didn't really have a problem with it, but that's probably just me as I'm used to reading **** like that :P

And eh, I am respecting this forum's rule, however, this discussion is about other forums with different rules, and grammar freaks complaining about them. How would you feel if people would constantly run around commenting on your language. Maybe reading bad grammar is annoying for you, but having 10 posts after that with corrections is annoying for other people trying to read the thread.

Btw, here's a real protip: spell-check programs don't correct all mistakes.

[~kitty~]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

The classic example for importance of proper capitalization also:

I helped my uncle Jack off a horse

I helped my uncle jack off a horse

I love that example.

I hate trying to explain things to people.

Why is it so hard to explain things on the internet?

I give up on you guys.

[devonin]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

[Squeek]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

You know damn well what that sentence said. Exaggerating doesn't make a valid point since I can do that with a proper sentence as well.

Do I? Can you prove it? You think I can figure out that jibberish, but what if I decided 16 years ago when the Internet was first starting to become popular to ignore all that garbage? I can't even tell you what half of the commonly-used acronyms these days mean let alone translate what an idiots says. I decided long ago that it wasn't worth knowing. If someone can't take the time to type out a proper reply, their post isn't worth reading.

And no, you can't do that with a proper sentence. Every correction I made was to an obviously misspelled word, a word without punctuation, a word without capitalization, etc. For example, if I see NASA versus nasa (which, by the way, Firefox underlines the "nasa" indicating a mistake), I will think "National Aeronautics and Space Administration" versus "nasal?"

I'd like to call bs on your protip. If you have a proper understanding of the language, most of the time you'll know whether it's a typo or not. You can get a lot of information out of the context. I'm doubting whether you have ever tried to translate a foreign language. The "English isn't their first language bull", as you call it, is nevertheless very correct. If even native speakers make mistakes to it's/its and they're/their/there, it's unfair to expect from everyone that they don't make mistakes, and to some people it might seem very rude to correct every mistake they make.

What about Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese, Korean, Russian, Greek, etc? They don't use the standard A-Z alphabet. Yeah, good luck detecting a typo. When the same two characters in Japanese can mean literally 100 different things, you think you're going to recognize a typo? If you're lucky enough to know the context of the sentence in advance you might be able to detect a typo.

And eh, I am respecting this forum's rule, however, this discussion is about other forums with different rules, and grammar freaks complaining about them. How would you feel if people would constantly run around commenting on your language. Maybe reading bad grammar is annoying for you, but having 10 posts after that with corrections is annoying for other people trying to read the thread.

Btw, here's a real protip: spell-check programs don't correct all mistakes.

I personally disagree with the original poster of this thread. I would not purposely try to fix a forum's habits like this. The only reason this was successful on FFR was because so many of the users already typed properly and wanted this rule in place. After all, we have serious discussions here sometimes and we want to be taken seriously. I don't take someone seriously if they can't speak seriously. It's just that simple.

And I know most spell-check programs won't catch all of the errors, but Firefox was kind enough to underline every single one of yours in your example while I was messing with it.

[^_^aki*rox^_^]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

Why do people have to complain so much?? As long as the sentence isnt, "omg, wtf ayd yfl?" or something like that, then why is it such a big deal? im really not that uptight to complain if someone writes "wat" instead of "what." I mean I even spell "rocks" as "rox" in my username, yet obviously I know grammar. The internet's about relaxing and enjoying it, not feeling like your still in school!

[Squeek]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

It shouldn't be a chore to type properly.

[Bynary Fission]

Re: Banned for Wanting Grammar!

It shouldn't be a chore to type properly.

But that doesn't mean everybody has to. Personally, I absolutely hate it when people "tlk lyk ths", or at least when I can't understand what they are trying to communicate. But, I've learned to ignore it - it's not my place to tell them how they should talk, and being an asshole about it won't help. From what I've seen from your posts regarding grammar, Squeek, you fail to realize that. I resist the urge to tell them to correct small grammatical issues, because it isn't worth fighting over. I pick my battles, and arguing over grammar isn't one of them. Really, I'd rather spend my time trying to do something worthwhile than go about telling people how to act and conform to my standards, which they probably don't care about anyways.


~Bynary Fission